Duplicates Recently Upgraded Croup Manner crash (repeatable)

I had received a notification that Croup Manner had upgraded from level 1 to level 2 (or level 0 to level 1, all i know is it upgraded). I attempted to go there on foot and crashed. This was repeatable for the next 6 times i tried coming from Nordhaggen Beach. When Croup Manner was level 0 i was able to go there and refresh it.

I then tried to fast travel to Croup Manner and immediately crashed to desktop. Tried this 5 times.

I swam around to Kingsport Lighthouse (level 3 settlement, no crashes) and defended the settlement, spent some time there, and attempt to cross the water to Croup Manner and crashed roughly the same distance as the previous 6 times i had tried on foot.

Other settlements have had crashing issues, but only a couple of times and not usually back to back (finch farm did it like 3 times back to back once).

I run this game with the following mods/load order:

# This file is used by the game to keep track of your downloaded content.
# Please do not modify this file.
*Snap'n Build.esm
*ArmorKeywords.esm
*Worsin's Garage.esm
*Loads.esm
*VideoMaster.esm
*SettlementKeywords.esm
*Robot Home Defence.esm
*Homemaker.esm
*CROSS_CosmeticFramework.esm
*HUDFramework.esm
*SimSettlements.esm
*Homemaker - Unlocked Institute Objects.esp
*CraftableAmmo.esp
*CraftableAmmo_plus.esp
*DarkerNights.esp
*BetterNightVision.esp
*SSEX.esp
Safe SSEx.esp
*Red Rocket Expanded Build Area.esp
*Sanctuary Build Area Expanded.esp
*The Castle Expanded.esp
*The Slog Build Area Expanded.esp
*Armorsmith Extended.esp
*LK05.esp
*SCAR-LK.esp
Homemaker - SSEx Compatibility Patch.esp
*M2216.esp
*Wasteland Sniper by Hothtrooper44.esp
*M14.esp
*TrueStormsFO4.esp
*TrueStormsFO4-ClimateSettings.esp
*TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp
*Snap'n Build - Bunker.esp
*Snap'n Build - Capsule.esp
*Snap'n Build - Greenhouse.esp
*Snap'n Build - Industrial.esp
*Snap'n Build - Patches.esp
*Snap'n Build - Real Estate.esp
*CBBE.esp
*VisibleWeapons.esp
*BetterStores.esp
*BS-ExtraCustomProps.esp
*BS-HomemakerPatch.esp
*AnV Camo Backpacks.esp
*DDP_Elevators_mark1.esp
*m82a.esp
*The Rebel.esp
*DD_build_a_castle_01.esp
*DD_CBBE_SLooty_Castle_Innie_Vajayjay_4k_Fix.esp
*Jetpacks Unlimited Master.esp
*JU Original (Compact).esp
*JU Original (Vanilla).esp
*JU Original (V-Wing).esp
*JU Worsin's Edition (Compact).esp
*JU Worsin's Edition (Vanilla).esp
*JU Worsin's Edition (V-Wing).esp
*WIPAG - Paint Garage - Full (Hard).esp
*WIPAG - Decal Station.esp
*WIPAG - Materials Overhaul.esp
*WIPAG - Mod Overhaul.esp
*WIPAG - Model-X.esp
*WIPAG - ArmorKeywords Compatibility Patch.esp
*WIPAG - Jetpacks Unlimited Compatibility Patch.esp
*Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
*PrefabHouses.esp
*LegendaryModification.esp
*LegendaryModification2LM.esp
*6slots.esp
*LegendaryModificationMisc.esp
*LegendaryModificationGroknak.esp
*Amazing Items.esp
*5 slot Amazing weapons.esp
*Amazing Items - Armorsmith Extended.esp
*SRM.esp
*SRM_Corpse6.esp
*SRM_Mercenary_Mortal.esp
*DD_Michael_Faraday_Time_yo.esp
*WaterTowers.esp
*TurretBallEN.esp
*DD_1x1_Foundation_Blocks.esp
*DD_Columnsandstuff_1_0.esp
*DD_Floor_brace.esp
*DD_Prelude_273.esp
*DD_bobblehead_stands.esp
*Loads of Ammo - Leveled Lists.esp
*SkibsWHMk22HMG.esp
*SkibsWHMk22HMG-LOADS+AWKCR.esp
*Vault98.esp
*EnclaveX02.esp
*DD_bleu_Ump_Extreme_Lore_friendly_edition.esp
*DD_flag_poles.esp
*DD_I_Ran_Out_Of_Funny_Names.esp
*DDP_Ramps_mark1.esp
*RansackedRelay.esp
*OSM_Buffed_Turrets_GuardPosts.esp
*Training_targets.esp
*Better Locational Damage.esp
*Better Locational Damage - Ghoul Edition.esp
*Better Locational Damage - DLC_Automatron.esp
*BLD - DD 0.40.esp
*Better Perks.esp
*Better Locational Damage - DLC_WWorkshop.esp
*BLD - DT 3.0.esp
*WestTekTacticalOptics.esp
companion_DogBots.esp
companion_DogMetal.esp
*MOAR Turrets.esp
*MOAR Turrets - Hard Mode.esp
*MakanarLandPurifiersDouble.esp
*Boats.esp
*SMC.esp
*personalvertibird.esp
*BTInteriors_Project.esp
*BasementLiving.esp
*SpecialVideos.esp
*VotWGeneralPurposePatch.esp
*DD_All_the_COncrete.esp
*R91M.esp
*LongerPowerLines3x.esp
*HeavyWeaponry.esp
*AdvSettleTurretSet-Real.esp
*Eli_DLC Paintings.esp
*AES_Bookcases.esp
*BTInt_NukaColaDecor.esp
*Eli_PlantPots.esp
*CraftableEnemySpawners.esp
*Business Settlements.esp
*VendorCaps_50k.esp
*SuperMutantOverhaul.esp
*WastelandWorkshopPatch.esp
*FunctionalDisplays.esp
*FunctionalDisplays-MISC-Vanilla.esp
*FunctionalDisplays-Weapons-Vanilla.esp
*FunctionalDisplays-Drinks-Vanilla.esp
*Robot Home Defence - Settlement Keywords.esp
*MojaveImports.esp
*OCDecorator.esp
*OCDispenser.esp
*OCDecorator - Mojave Imports Extension.esp
*AdvBubbleTurretSet-Real.esp
*Gojira.esp
*BrighterSettlementLights.esp
*Eli_Faction Housing Overhaul - Prydwen.esp
*Eli_Faction Housing Overhaul - V81.esp
*combat_PA.esp
*combat_PA - AWKCR.esp
*GaussRifleMk2.esp
*GaussRifleMk2 - AWKCR.esp
*Skyship Welder.esp
*Locksmith.esp
*CompVictoria.esp
*Survivalist GoBag.esp
*HN66-SiriusArmor.esp
*Eli_Crafting Shiz 9000.esp
*ImmersiveFastTravel.esp
*DisableVanillaFastTravel.esp
*IFT_Automatron.esp
*VegetableOil.esp
*PowerArmorT49.esp
*CROSS_PlasRail.esp
*CROSS_Cybernetics.esp
*CROSS_Jetpack.esp
*CROSS_Uni_Headset.esp
*CROSS_Uni_Scarf.esp
*CROSS_Techmask.esp
*CROSS_Cybernetics_NoRobotFootStepSounds.esp
*GatlingRifle.esp
*GatlingRifle-Commando.esp
*3dscopes-FarHarbor.esp
*3dscopes.esp
*3dscopes-AddToSpawnList.esp
*3dscopes-framework.esp
*3dscopes-m2216addon.esp
*3dscopes-r91maddon.esp
*3dscopes-m14addon.esp
*3dscopes-xm73addon.esp
*3dscopes-UMPaddon.esp
*3dscopes-lk05addon.esp
3dscopes-uspaddon.esp
*dinoshelf.esp
*dinoshelf_extra_ammo.esp
*Liberty_PA.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-Aid.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-Ammo.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-ArmorByClass.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-CosmeticsByClass.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-ExplosivesSortTop.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-JunkBetter+DEF_INV.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-Misc.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-Mods.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-NotJunkJustMoney.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-Perks.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-Weapons.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-ZZ-DLCAutomatron.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-ZZ-DLCFarHarbor.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-ZZ-DLCRuleArmorByClassOverride.esp
*HappyPills.esp
*Gatling Laser Overhaul.esp
*GLOAutomatron.esp
*DLCRobotsExtra.esp
*Superior Energy-Weapons.esp
*GLOSLP.esp
*HappyMaker.esp
*ImmersiveVendors.esp
*Minigun Gau-19B.esp
*SMH.esp
*WelcometoGoodneighbor.esp
*ClassicSniper.esp
*Fusion Gun.esp
*QuickEnterFromStand.esp
*mjp_PTRS41ATR.esp
*Craftable Ammo - PTRS-41 Patch (25x).esp
*Modular Simonov PTRS-41 - AWKCR-Compatibility.esp
*Mansion.esp
*SCAR-L.esp
*Tesla X01.esp
*MaxwellsWorl.esp
*DOOMRhino.esp
*K9TacticalHarness.esp
*TacticalMods.esp
*TacticalModsDLC.esp
*TNR Shoulder Lamp.esp
*TNR Shoulder Lamp - Settings.esp
*TNR Shoulder Lamp - Alternate Slot.esp
*M4A1.esp
*3dscopes-M4A1addon.esp
*RU556.esp
*PD_LowerWeapon.esp
*FortHope.esp
*Sandbag Fortifications - Version 2C.esp
*Moddable Plasma Caster.esp
*SkibsWeapons-REDUX.esp
*CROSS_GoreCrits.esp
*CROSS_GoreCrits_FarHarborPatch.esp
*RemoteExplosives.esp
*Passthrough.esp
*SimSettlements_AddOnPack_Utilities_JtBryant.esp
*TrainPowerArmor.esp
*Wastelanders XM2076 by giggity12345.esp
*mk14.esp
*MK14EBR_Apparel.esp
*mk14reload.esp
*AA FusionCityRising.esp
*FunctionalDisplays-Collectibles.esp
*PIP-Pad.esp
PIP-Pad_Pip-BoyFlashlight.esp
*Skibs-IF88Redux.esp
*Skibs-WH77Redux.esp
*SimSettlements_XPAC_IndustrialRevolution.esp
*IndustrialCity_Sim_Settlements_Addon.esp
*SimSettlements_XPAC_RiseOfTheCommonwealth.esp

I am also experiencing the same repeatable crash with Norhagen beach after it upgraded from level 0 to level 1 going on foot and fast traveling. I wanted to add that i am using the papyrus ini tweak and have been for a while.

When i was able to load a save a few min before the upgrade happened (at 96% towards level 1) at nordhagen beach, i was able to walk there without a crash. When i slept 12 hours to kick in the next 4% it reset back to 6% towards level 1 and didnt upgrade. (This is repeatable).

When i fast traveled away a 96% and slept again for 12 hours, it upgraded three items at norhagen beach (instead of 1 previously to hit 100%) and it didnt upgrade at all. If it did upgrade, there was no notification.

Edit: I went back after fast traveling away and sleeping, waited for a while longer after the three notifications, then fast traveled back to Nordhagen. No crash, but the reset still happened. It's back at 6% now instead of 96%.

When i load the save before i went there at all, it upgrades after sleeping 12 hours after one house upgrade, and then i crash when trying to go there on foot or fast traveling there. I did notice, however, that donation of scrap percentage is still at 100% when i checked the table after i noticed it reset back to 6%.

So far, these crashes have been repeatable when trying to go there (on foot, fast travel) for the following settlements:

Nordhagen Beach (upgraded from 0-1, after which cannot visit without crashing)
Croup Manor (upgraded from 0-1, after which cannot visit without crashing)

I am going to wait and see if the same happens to the next three settlements that upgrade (Jamaica Plains, Murkwater Construction Site, and warwick homestead ) they are a little over 55% atm

Edit 1: So i had reloaded the save just before Nordhagen Beach first upgraded to level 1 successfully, i tried once again to go there by foot and fast travel and i crashed, and i realized the percentage meter on the left of the screen thats supposed to show progress towards next upgrade is bugging out. Jamaica Plains was listed as 54% towards next level up (both on the meter and on the table) and it successfully upgraded from 0 to 1 without crashing (i was in the settlement as it upgraded, and it upgraded right after the notification for the Nordhagen Beaches upgrade). Shortly after Murkwater also updated and im heading there now to see what happens.

Edit 2: Murkwater has successfully upgraded to level 1, and the percentage meter for progression seems to be accurate. No crashes when approaching on foot.

The castle and Murkwater are now experiencing the same kind of crashes (repeatable)

what happen if you use a save that was before the 3.1.2 ? and you play with 3.1.1 ? did the same crash happen too ?

Karyusan said:

what happen if you use a save that was before the 3.1.2 ? and you play with 3.1.1 ? did the same crash happen too ?

Click to expand...

I was not experiencing this level of crashes in the prior update, i have not tried it with the previous version since i upgraded to the latest version.

Edit: i managed to get within 60 meters of Murkwater, when objects started to load. I waited there for about a minute and then I crashed to desktop.

ok thks that info help to know if the crash come just from the update or others things.

For one, your mod list is an absolute mess. Why do you have the snap and build esm and all of the esps? Snap and Build 2.0 should only be an esm (unless you're using the old snap and build...can't even remember how that was set up). And I'm seeing a few older weapon mods that I'm pretty sure don't add to leveled lists via script injection, and no merged patch anywhere to deal with the conflicts. That alone could lead to random crashes. That's a really bad load order. Load it up in f04edit and I bet you'll find conflicts everywhere. When you really start stacking mods like that with no sense of order who knows what the problem could be. Even if your current crashes aren't related to your load order, I doubt the game is even functioning properly. Take some time with the f04edit tutorials and fix your load order and resolve all conflicts with merged patches. Might not help SS or RotC crashes, but man...I'm surprised you're not crashing all of the time.

eldiabs said:

For one, your mod list is an absolute mess. Why do you have the snap and build esm and all of the esps? Snap and Build 2.0 should only be an esm (unless you're using the old snap and build...can't even remember how that was set up). And I'm seeing a few older weapon mods that I'm pretty sure don't add to leveled lists via script injection, and no merged patch anywhere to deal with the conflicts. That alone could lead to random crashes. That's a really bad load order. Load it up in f04edit and I bet you'll find conflicts everywhere. When you really start stacking mods like that with no sense of order who knows what the problem could be. Even if your current crashes aren't related to your load order, I doubt the game is even functioning properly. Take some time with the f04edit tutorials and fix your load order and resolve all conflicts with merged patches. Might not help SS or RotC crashes, but man...I'm surprised you're not crashing all of the time.

Click to expand...

My load order is large and extensive, and yet I am able to runs settlement that are about 10x larger than diamond city without issues other than frame rate. I know why I don't crash all the time lol, gaming rig and choice of mods are two very important reasons.

I have older mods in there, and what order are you referring to? That order has been working for me for the last year or more with zero conflicts, zero game errors, and no crashes despite the occasional ones that always happen even with unmodded games. I ran my load order through loot, can you guess how many red conflicts?

Three. That's with 2500 hours playing the game. That isn't the loot approved load order though, since it wouldn't let me apply it due to an error I couldn't understand. That's the original load order, in all its messy glory, and it's been perfect.

One of the red ones being a warning that you mentioned about the new snap and build esm that I don't have downloaded. Pretty sure I'm doing it semi-right if the only issues I'm dealing with are after downloading sim settlements and rotc. That's why I'm here, to help fix them.

With that being said I'm open to suggestions but saying "Idk why you aren't crashing all the time" and "your load order sucks" isn't productive or even useful information. Like I said I know why I'm not crashing all the time, I'm wondering why I'm crashing all the time while approaching upgraded rotc settlements or scrapping/placing certain items in an rotc settlement.

ahem

from a support perspective we are seeing several issues with crashing.

these bake down into 3 separate types of crashes:

1. Corrupted installations thanks to nexus mod manager being stupid.
symptoms: random ctd on approach to settlements, Scripts acting strange and backing up.

2. System overload
symptoms: random ctd on approach to settlements, Scripts acting strange and backing up.

3. Mod conflicts
symptoms: random ctd can happen anywhere, Scripts acting strange and backing up.

Then there is whatever is going on witb the city planners desk connecting to the wrong settlement.. thats a whole separate issue.

As you can tell from the symptom descriptions, nuance is important if we are going to get anywhere in troubleshooting.

The first thing to try is always a manual install. if you dont feel comfortable doing that, click the version number in nmm to go to the home page in a browser window, do a full delete of the one you just clicked and redownload via the link on the page you just opened. the full delete is important, dont upgrade.

Edit: make sure you have a fresh installation of SS, IR and ROTC as well as all addons. all it takes is one missing mesh on a single plot and the game will crash and burn.

So based on that it seems like it's either number one or two. I'm not familiar with system overload though (as in I don't really know what that means specifically).

Seeing as three happens rarely, if ever (I've had maybe three random ctd in the last 9 months?)

I ran my load order through loot, it gave me 8 warnings and 3 conflicts (one of which was the old version of snap and build, which I just simply haven't updated yet). I have to look again to see what the others are exactly.

Seeing as how rotc runs its settlements without things like snap and build, and snap and build isn't a mod that's listed as a direct conflict to rotc or ss, I'm still trying to get more exact information which is why I'm recounting my events and experiences with ss and rotc.

I have been going through the mods to see what needs to be updated as I go forward.

the cause isnt likely to be snap and build.

try a full file refresh first, if that doesnt correct the issue, unload ALL of the equipment and weapons mods and try it again. we need to do some trial and error to find the specific problem and for that we need to rule things like level list conflicts out.

tankthing said:

the cause isnt likely to be snap and build.

try a full file refresh first, if that doesnt correct the issue, unload ALL of the equipment and weapons mods and try it again. we need to do some trial and error to find the specific problem and for that we need to rule things like level list conflicts out.

Click to expand...

You mean a city refresh? I can't refresh it because i cannot get to the settlement anymore after it upgraded to level 1 (nordhagen beach and croup manor, and not the castle as well)

no, a full replacement of all files associated with sim settlements from the nexus. we need to be certain that nothing is missing or corrupted.

Sim Settlements is large with a lot of moving parts. Making sure that the correct parts that should be there are with no extra loose files from older things is the first step.

tankthing said:

no, a full replacement of all files associated with sim settlements from the nexus. we need to be certain that nothing is missing or corrupted.

Click to expand...

Oh i see it now, i read it wrong.

I can just delete the ones i have now and reinstall without any issues right? I remember hearing you dont need to do a clean save and all that other stuff due to progress being lost.

nope, in fact losing progress is a last resort. you can delte the mod entirely and do a fresh install and as long as the game isnt actually runnong when you do, it wont know the difference.

if the problem is what i think it is, its just a mod conflict and we are going through the steps to make sure its as good as we can get it just in case.

I reinstalled everything, going to the two repeatable problem settlements now to see if that did anything.

First one was nordhagen beach, still crashed after some of the structures loaded, going to Croup Manor now

Croup Manor still crashed the same way as the previous did.

I don't have the same consistant crashing issue with other rotc settlements (the occasional one, yeah, but nothing like the castle, croup manor, and nordhagen)

edit: oh and i am still running the papyrus script edit, if that is something you didnt see before (ive tried entering those places without the script edit and it still crashed).

ok, now the bad part.

disable all those weapons and armor mods and see if it still crashes. dont save the game after loading in. we dont actually want to get rid of them, just see if one of them is the culprit.