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Yaugie's post-CH3 thoughts (spoilers, etc)

It's funny, having just gotten a new playthrough up to the "would be finished Chapter 2 if the one last Unique Settler I want for my Engineering Department would friggin spawn" point, I've realised as I went back through that I could do about as long a post as that initial split-in-two rant of just the things I don't like about the mod.
But I've learned in my time here that even so much as expressing a negative opinion on these forums will get you shouted at for being wrong unless you shroud it in ball-gargling tier praise, so I'll not.
 
yaugie said:
It's funny, having just gotten a new playthrough up to the "would be finished Chapter 2 if the one last Unique Settler I want for my Engineering Department would friggin spawn" point, I've realised as I went back through that I could do about as long a post as that initial split-in-two rant of just the things I don't like about the mod.
But I've learned in my time here that even so much as expressing a negative opinion on these forums will get you shouted at for being wrong unless you shroud it in ball-gargling tier praise, so I'll not.
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Damn it yaugie, you just had to be negative at some point x)
Obviously there are unlikeable things, I for once realised I hate recruitment in repeat playthroughs. Hunting unique settlers, 15 HQ staff, allies - all of it. Please please we need The Ron's Office fast travel marker or a permanent recruitment tracker for 5K caps or something.
But I've remembered your thread, and now that I myself finished chapter 3 (hell yeah! Took me long enough) I mostly agree with everything. I'm not sure what I was looking for initially when starting SS2 but I sure didn't expect to nuke anything from orbit. And we went a long way to get there so it feels justified. Like the main quest but done right. A lot of people dead, they left us no chance, etc, etc, but it actually feels like it and not some forced conflict.
The battle of Quincy quest reminded me a lot of the assault on Hoover Dam in New Vegas. Which is probably the highest praise I can give it, as that was fucking epic, and this is arguably.. even better (wait for me to take the rose-tinted glasses off, that might take some time...). All our allies, connections, planning, making friends and enemies, it all led to this one grand moment. Easily in my top 2 favourite quests now.
I'm really glad that I went out of my way to get CPD and NLTC (and ALL other factions except for Diamond City and someone previously dead).
Minutemen were perfect for artillery (who else would you pick) and Institute for tech support. And CPD got beefed up just enough to carry me on the road to Quincy. I did die once to friendly fire from assaultrons (and once to enemy fire from assaultrons...).
If I really was to nitpick, some shifts in tone could probably be avoided, like how we nuke Province Bay and Jake immediately jokes to Magnusson about putting the coffee on. And I wish some really tough gunners spawned on the overpass to fight cause that final sequence was just watching Brotherhood raise hell downstairs (as epic as their entrance was, like holy shit) while I was standing there.. waiting for the comm tower to do its thing. Yep, don't mind me, I'm just chilling here. Also yeah, the "sniper" in the beginning of assault just showed up 5m away on the ground and was obliterated in seconds, it was kinda funny. Worst sniper ever.
Oh and the occasional lack of epic music makes it all feel kinda weird. Not sure if it was meant to be there but it wasn't.
I've noticed what I consider to be some internal lore inconsistencies but it's not a dealbreaker so doesn't really matter.
Also yeah, Madison is clearly lying and vault-tec is evil as shit (took a while but I got fully convinced they were the employer, before the chapter released) but if I as the player didn't know better..
Uh, I ended up pointing out more nitpicks than you did in your posts but still, I was so caught up in it that I stayed up till 4am knowing full well that work is in 4 hours.
 
Antoine Soverie said:
Damn it yaugie, you just had to be negative at some point x)
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I am actually bio-chemically incapable of being positive for very long unless I really pour the effort in.
Rest assured that if I was to go full nitpick mode I would've needed an entire page of posts to copy paste it all (I wrote the original two posts in Notepad before posting them here, so I could do my customary edit-passes before anyone saw). I tried to stick to broad feelings because I know my preferred playstyle isn't exactly the "default" or the "assumed" methods for a lot of stuff.
 
yaugie said:
I know my preferred playstyle isn't exactly the "default" or the "assumed" methods for a lot of stuff.
Click to expand...
While that's true, there's what I would call individual nitpicks (like too little rewards and too much micromanagement on the "micromanagement" difficulty, or some characters not being romanceable, or not liking a character's face) and broad nitpicks (like disease system, like it or not but we can all say it needs a lot of work, HQ and war mechanics to a much lesser - imo - extent).
I forgot where I was going with this but most of mine fall into the first category I guess.
 
Antoine Soverie said:
Damn it yaugie, you just had to be negative at some point x)
Obviously there are unlikeable things, I for once realised I hate recruitment in repeat playthroughs. Hunting unique settlers, 15 HQ staff, allies - all of it. Please please we need The Ron's Office fast travel marker or a permanent recruitment tracker for 5K caps or something.
But I've remembered your thread, and now that I myself finished chapter 3 (hell yeah! Took me long enough) I mostly agree with everything. I'm not sure what I was looking for initially when starting SS2 but I sure didn't expect to nuke anything from orbit. And we went a long way to get there so it feels justified. Like the main quest but done right. A lot of people dead, they left us no chance, etc, etc, but it actually feels like it and not some forced conflict.
The battle of Quincy quest reminded me a lot of the assault on Hoover Dam in New Vegas. Which is probably the highest praise I can give it, as that was fucking epic, and this is arguably.. even better (wait for me to take the rose-tinted glasses off, that might take some time...). All our allies, connections, planning, making friends and enemies, it all led to this one grand moment. Easily in my top 2 favourite quests now.
I'm really glad that I went out of my way to get CPD and NLTC (and ALL other factions except for Diamond City and someone previously dead).
Minutemen were perfect for artillery (who else would you pick) and Institute for tech support. And CPD got beefed up just enough to carry me on the road to Quincy. I did die once to friendly fire from assaultrons (and once to enemy fire from assaultrons...).
If I really was to nitpick, some shifts in tone could probably be avoided, like how we nuke Province Bay and Jake immediately jokes to Magnusson about putting the coffee on. And I wish some really tough gunners spawned on the overpass to fight cause that final sequence was just watching Brotherhood raise hell downstairs (as epic as their entrance was, like holy shit) while I was standing there.. waiting for the comm tower to do its thing. Yep, don't mind me, I'm just chilling here. Also yeah, the "sniper" in the beginning of assault just showed up 5m away on the ground and was obliterated in seconds, it was kinda funny. Worst sniper ever.
Oh and the occasional lack of epic music makes it all feel kinda weird. Not sure if it was meant to be there but it wasn't.
I've noticed what I consider to be some internal lore inconsistencies but it's not a dealbreaker so doesn't really matter.
Also yeah, Madison is clearly lying and vault-tec is evil as shit (took a while but I got fully convinced they were the employer, before the chapter released) but if I as the player didn't know better..
Uh, I ended up pointing out more nitpicks than you did in your posts but still, I was so caught up in it that I stayed up till 4am knowing full well that work is in 4 hours.
Click to expand...
Hahaha I'm a sap and was actually believing Madison because of the Mr House vibes from Mag, but then she threatens you at the end of the convo and I'm like "yeah she's lying. Good ol Vault Tec being bastards as usual"

I loved the story of this and want to do a full replay just to see the Gunner Truce ending, but man Ch3 and the bugs had me so stressed out lol. The slightest thing breaks quests in Ch3, especially Gunners spawning on the HQ roof
 
OLKv2 said:
I loved the story of this and want to do a full replay just to see the Gunner Truce ending, but man Ch3 and the bugs had me so stressed out lol. The slightest thing breaks quests in Ch3, especially Gunners spawning on the HQ roof
Click to expand...
I was going to do the same, but my own current playthrough has run into so many oddities that I'm not going to bother completing Chapter 2 - I set the self imposed goal of fully building the HQ under the other restrictions of this playthrough (no Industrials other than Junk Gathering) and I'll just call it done there.
 
yaugie said:
I was going to do the same, but my own current playthrough has run into so many oddities that I'm not going to bother completing Chapter 2 - I set the self imposed goal of fully building the HQ under the other restrictions of this playthrough (no Industrials other than Junk Gathering) and I'll just call it done there.
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Kinda funny how your empire is going to just completely ignore the industrial revolution x)
 
Antoine Soverie said:
Kinda funny how your empire is going to just completely ignore the industrial revolution x)
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It was in part to test how I keep on saying that your actual mechanical progress in the settlement mechanics has little to no effect on the questline. Until I got to HQ, that was definitely the case, but I'm basically halted in progress now without waiting days between building each HQ room, unless I go drop a few thousand caps on buying shipments.
 
yaugie said:
I set the self imposed goal of fully building the HQ under the other restrictions of this playthrough (no Industrials other than Junk Gathering) and I'll just call it done there.
Click to expand...
Ah. I cheated right through the HQ. Turned on simple mode, turned off the wait, boosted my settlers to max stats, spammed the DLC 100 rating Power Generators in Sanctuary, and just blasted through the HQ
 
OLKv2 said:
Ah. I cheated right through the HQ. Turned on simple mode, turned off the wait, boosted my settlers to max stats, spammed the DLC 100 rating Power Generators in Sanctuary, and just blasted through the HQ
Click to expand...
I guess at least one person took the proper strategy of "if you don't like it, cheat it", well done :)
 
I could easily do another max-length post ranting about HQ, but between "HQ3.0" supposedly coming Soon(tm), and the general feeling of "saying anything negative makes you Unpersoned" I mentioned above, there seems to be little point.
 
Oh yeah I could do that too (and I love HQ but I guess you do too?) but there really is no point. Besides, HQ 3.0 or whatever the number is, is indeed coming :)
 
Antoine Soverie said:
Oh yeah I could do that too (and I love HQ but I guess you do too?) but there really is no point. Besides, HQ 3.0 or whatever the number is, is indeed coming :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, the idea is great, and seeing that broken down building slowly grow into this glorious HQ is really rewarding, but so many of the mechanics need reworking, and most of your hard work doesn't matter in Ch 3 either, so happy to learn that the staff is aware of it
 
One point I will bring up regarding HQ is that kinggath and I have significantly, demonstrably different opinions on how much of HQ is "mandatory" - it came up during either last week's livestream or the week before. I mentioned that it needed an Endgame Resource Sink, but the response was that it already is.
In my mind, I was considering the HQ's entire Medical Research functionality and building up enough of the rest of the place to make that actually work (plus the MASSIVE overproduction your settlements need to be doing at the same time) as being basically mandatory - at least if playing with Disease switched on, which is the default, especially now that the Disease Intensity Ramp-up is working 'properly' again, once they start getting up to Tier 3 those are expensive to research. That's on top of the quest-mandatory setting up Power Sharing infrastructure that isn't even USED by the HQ mechanics as they stand anyway.

My other issues with the place can be summed up as "just add more content" which is... not exactly useful?
 
yaugie said:
I mentioned that it needed an Endgame Resource Sink, but the response was that it already is.
Click to expand...
It already is tho? You said it yourself, those things are expensive. And upgrades and rooms not counting the disease research easily made me spend at least 20-40K materials. I guess there could be a building mats sink, I ended up with 40K of them and nothing else. Maybe a project for scheduled repairs or something.
Power is used for disease too right? I can say that there could indeed be more stuff. But anything bigger than a project with some numbers on it would require writing coding and voicing. Maybe some actual functional rewards (not saying there's none of them). Like, I really wish we could build a molecular relay and use it to get to the institute. Would that mean messing with the main quest? Yeah, most likely. Or our own vertibirds, or security dudes we can take as followers (I had so much fun on security missions, I always go join them), or a mechanic to auto-defend our bloody settlements from 5 raiders with wrenches (I guess some mayors do that, guards could potentially do that, and I know SKK settlement defence system can turn vanilla attacks off). An actual recruitment center to gather uniques and not run to the Ron and settlements every time would be a nice reward I think. Make that immediately after getting HQ and it will help a lot with HQ itself. Maybe something crazy like an arena to make prisoners and paid competitors fight captured beasts. Huh, I'm almost proud of that. Use for war prisoners, entertainment, questionable morality, cap source/sink and you could even go there and take part yourself.
 
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Antoine Soverie said:
It already is tho? You said it yourself, those things are expensive.
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Sure, but to me, the Disease Research is effectively mandatory unless you want your dudes to be crippled with -3 SPECIALs and consuming an extra 10 Water per day, rather than optional to grant extra benefits - that is the distinction I'm trying to make here. The other Labs with that "spends Virtual Resources and bypasses perks" system would be something more like I was meaning by an optional resource sink, for what little use those are by the time you're able to afford them.
From what little detail has been implied so far, "HQ3.0" will probably cover a good chunk of my issues in that regard anyway. I only brought it up so that it's in writing and timestamped so I can point to it later.
 
Yeah, when you put it like that, it's not optional. Unless you turn disease off, that is. I'm not sure what benefits there would be to disease research, other than getting rid of handicaps and feeling good about yourself. Though if it gave temporary immunity to everything, increased their productivity and maybe even a cool quest (I know not everything can be Sunken Treasure..)
I think chapter 3 did the resource sink thing better, with the supplier you can manage resources very effectively. Now if only there was a way to get rid of all the building materials without extra mods (as good as settlement manager terminal is, or anything that turns them into shipments to sell..)
I'm not getting any insights (gotta watch more streams I guess) but I'm fairly certain that update will make a lot of people happy.
 
Yeah I'm going to declare that "Only the Junk subtype of Industrial" save over. It was going ok albiet slowly until I got up to unlocking the Science Department in HQ, and then each individual room and upgrade was requiring more Antiseptic and Glass than I'd seen in the entire playthrough to that point, not to mention the Disease Research.
 
Only the junk subtype of industrial is how my playthrough is going. I really don't see any wasting plot space on converting one type of junk to another.

Also, the Raze My Settlement mod is a lifesaver ; )

I've also got disease turned off. That whole subplot has no appeal at all to me. It comes across as contrived and by the way, how come the Gunners never get sick?
 
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