Super slow saves 2.0.0

[Amardon1961]

Since updating, super slow saves. I mean quick saves, real saves, etc. 20+ mins!!

 

[KroelleBoelle]

Our testers' systems definitely run the gambit of potato to superbeast!

If we can get confirmation from any of you digging in with this testing that the issue happens WITHOUT Chapter 2 having ever been installed - but just the 2.0.0 update to SS2 and 2.0.17 update to WSFW, that would narrow down the issue quite a bit.

The fact that the issue seems to happen more frequently when near a settlement definitely helps with some ideas - and also may act as a potential workaround for folks having the issue (ie. they can save far from settlements, such as in an interior or an alternate worldspace like Diamond City).

for me i got save problems and some save ctd's so far only in settlements. outside settlements same like usual.

 

[smitty420]

Alright, let's summarize what we know for sure at this time:

• It's not Chapter 2: several reports of not having it installed.
• It's not WSFW (at least not by itself): Some reports of having it up to date but not SS2 (I'm one of them and monitoring closely)
• It's not mod conflicts: 1 report of running only SS2 related stuff.
• 3 reports of having it happen during If I Had A Hammer, but some happening out of that quest.
• Autosaves are mentioned a lot. We have to remember that autosaves trigger immediately after X happens. The "immediately" here might be relevant.

 

[beshqena]

My personal experience with SS2 so far is thus (I do love and enjoy it a lot, despite what I'm gonna say afterwards :D )

I'm playing on a pretty low spec laptop and I think, most of my problems are because of it.

from my observation, when settlements are small, with few settlers and low level buildings, everything runs ok. but once I unlock more buildings and settlements grow in size, population, building variants and levels, problems start.

aside from low FPS (thats pretty normal for me), I get very slow reaction on every action I do, for example, placing a plot, choosing a specific type of building on said plot, game takes really long to assign an NPC to it, to calculate required resources and build it. I do get a medium to high amount of CTDs in large settlements, especially when I fast travel to them. and lastly, after updating to 2.0 version, I have really long save times, mostly when I'm in or near a large settlement.

one not so reliable fix I came up with, is just standing and not moving, or turning around, once I fast travel to a settlement for couple of minutes, in that case, crashes are rare.

another thing I noticed, I have a one fully robot settlement at greygarden, never had an issue with it, but that said, I only have power plots and couple of defence plots there. I did have two crashes there, but those happened after I sent curie there.

imo, all of those problems are connected to scripts somehow, and how game handles new scripts added with SS2 and my laptop being slow, really makes everything worse. gonna try Bakascrapheap and see how things change.

another thing I'm going to try, is install everything on my friends PC, which has a lot more juice and see how things work there.

 

[Agi_]

I add my small contribution.
Started a brand new game from the mirror because i read that starting from the lift doesnt trigger Carla and Trudy selling cure disease; atm they dont sell it, but i havent yet settlers ill.
No problem at all in save time until i started Have a Hammer quest.
During Hammer quest i leveled up building something, i opened pipboy, leveled, closed it triggering autosave: two minutes save time. iirc there were two houses under construction a nother house finished from before doing museum, a farm and an industrial finished. I was doing what Paul suggested, build more houses and workplaces.
Been around a bit doing Gorsky, Ranger cabin, station and had no problems saving; had a long save time in sanctuary where i built a farm for Sturges quest while Hammer quest was not yet finished. My main base is Starlight
I'm running light on mods: just aestetic like Caliente, a few armour and weapon mods and SS2 plot addons. Nothing that changes settlers or settlements behaviour, 62 mods total. I'm using F4SE and Baka on a PC that was a beast when i got it, ten years ago

 

[smitty420]

It started for me almost immediately after updating to 2.0. I’ve disabled autosave, using quick saving only. Everything runs and saves fine even in smaller settlements (8-10 ppl and 5-6 plots.)
Goes to hell shortly after that. I had the quest line finished up to kidnapping and didn’t rescue for a few days after the update so it’s not quest related.
if I get out of viewing range of all settlements it seems to save fine.
finally did vault 75 last night, saving took longer inside but not horribly, maybe 25-30 secs compared to 2-3 mins in settlement. However my FPS stayed near 30 the entire time which never happened there before and doesn’t happen anywhere else in the game, expect maybe in the Mass Fusion part of town during a busy gunfight, or a settlement with 30+ plots.
The only (non-SS-required) mods I use that affect settlements are faster workshop, Workshop Rearranged (which I suspect has eaten my functional displays menu), OCDecorator, Place Anywhere. I’ve never used scrap everything or any mod that would mess with the precombines.
I do have a ton of SS plot addons like Pra and Jampads. In case it turns out to be one plot plan causing all these headaches, the only one that every location have in common is the 1x1 Martial ‘Checkpoint’. It’s awesome, I use it everywhere, props to the designer.
Only saving outside of settlements has kept the game in a playable state for me, just want you to know you’re not at risk of losing any fan loyalty here. However quicksaving while building is important for experimenting with new settlement designs so I hope this one gets resolved. And thanks for the Shitter too. Even my grandma laughed at that.

 

[ElanaLoaded]

Based on my own experiences, I can confirm that the issue is either with SS2 or WSFW, based on the following specific points:

1. Starting a new game, I have no issues with saving at all. Full saves take about 2-3 seconds, autosaves don't seem to affect gameplay.
2. Immediately after starting the SS2 content (Jake showing up to talk) the save starts taking 5-10 seconds and causing the game to freeze while saving.
3. After building a full settlement (using the desk to build the city plan) starts causing saves to take even longer, but only while outside and near the settlement.
4. Saves made while build scripts are running (i.e. immediately after seeing notifications like "A settler has finished building a home in Starlight Drive-In") will consistently cause my game to freeze and crash.

There may be some compatibility issues, but if there are they were introduced by SS2, as my game was stable before I updated to 2.0. My current gameplay was as follows:
1. Start game, build character.
2. "Start me up" triggers. I have selected both the "Dreaming, wake up somewhere else in the commonwealth" and the "Dreaming, was in a vault" options. Neither caused issues previously, so most likely unrelated.
3. Exit vault, go to Sanctuary, clear Sanctuary with Codsworth.
4. Go to Concord, rescue settlers.
5. Return to Sanctuary, built beds, resources, defenses manually (no Sim Settlements components or gameplay yet)
6. Do first MM quest (Tenpines). This time it goes to Corvega, clear it out, return to turn it in.
7. Preston makes me a MM, sends me to second MM quest. This one is at the crossing, goes to the clothing store. Do all that and return to Preston.
8. Go to Starlight, clear out the moles, get the key, build my first beacon to trigger Jake.
9. Do the residential plot tutorial, no issues. Tell Jake Concord is clear.
10. Go to Concord, Jake is happy, gives holotape.
11. Go back to Starlight, build Agri and industrial tutorials, no issues. Jake leaves. Save game here, save has no issues.
12. Build desk, Go into the terminal, First run settings to "returning user, automatic, ok". Use city plan, "Starlight Basics" (only plan I have for Starlight). Build finishes with all plots built and power connected to everything except the beacon. This is normal.
13. If I save at this point, the game will freeze/crash.
14. Second attempt, city plan builds the same as before. Instead of saving, I walk down to Drumlin Diner, do the confrontation.
15. Use the holotape to cheat to Chapter 2 (I've done Chapter 1 already, want to see the new stuff). Get all the mission rewards, set the settlement to "Sunshine Tidings", get the rest of the rewards.
16. Save here. Takes longer, but finishes.
17. Go to Concord, start Chapter 2. Progress through the missions until back in Concord again. No issues with playing or saving at all while in interior zones.
18. Jake says thanks, time to take a break. I go over to Sunshine Tidings to see how it looks. It's not set up. Save first, no issues with save. Build a desk and set the city plan.
19. If I save at this point, the game freezes/crashes.
20. Second attempt, I rebuild again, then walk south away from Sunshine Tidings. Save when I get close to the bridge to the south, save is okay.
21. New message from Jake, triggers another quest to go back to Main Settlement (for me this is Starlight).
-- Fast travel causes crash (due to autosave?)
-- Saving at any point after this causes a crash.
22. I have made it through the events at the settlement, walked all the way back to Drumlin Diner, and then the game froze when trying to save. After 5 different attempts, I gave up and came here.


The TL;DR from that is "no issues at all until I build a city plan. After that, I have issues with saving, and those issues are consistently worse while outside and near the settlement." Again, I did not have any issues with SS2 until 2.0, and I had more mods installed before that as well (including Fusion City, Outcasts, and Project Valkyrie). Removing those mods and starting a fresh game didn't help either, so I'm under the impression that the recent updates are the source of my issues.

I also don't know if it's relevant, but I'm on PC running an I7-6700HQ, 16GB DDR3, nVidia GeForce GTX-960M, NVMe PM951 512GB SSD. Running Windows 10 Home, 19043.1348. Fallout 4 version 1.10.163, F4SE 0.6.21 rel 23.

Your PC rig similar to mine. Similar experience re saving.

 

[Bunke]

Only my autosaves are slow, it takes around 1-2 minutes. I'm on a fresh playthrough 4 hours in. I might aswel just turn it off, until it has been looked at.

 

[saulkorz]

Only my autosaves are slow, it takes around 1-2 minutes. I'm on a fresh playthrough 4 hours in. I might as well just turn it off, until it has been looked at.

Same here: except I play on survival mode so only save on sleeping, and the risk of a CTD plus just the lag in general makes it unplayable.

 

[AcidicAmber]

Our testers' systems definitely run the gambit of potato to superbeast!

If we can get confirmation from any of you digging in with this testing that the issue happens WITHOUT Chapter 2 having ever been installed - but just the 2.0.0 update to SS2 and 2.0.17 update to WSFW, that would narrow down the issue quite a bit.

The fact that the issue seems to happen more frequently when near a settlement definitely helps with some ideas - and also may act as a potential workaround for folks having the issue (ie. they can save far from settlements, such as in an interior or an alternate worldspace like Diamond City).

Yeah, all of that is accurate regarding it happening sans Chapter 2. Have even tested on more than one pc. I will usually go to homeplate to save, but I wait a couple minutes after arriving. If you try to save right away the bug sometimes still occurs as if it's residual.. something running. It's also not instant on arriving at a settlement. Often can get a quick save in when arriving at a settlement but after being there for a minute it seems to trigger whatever is causing the extended saves.

 

[kinggath]

Looking for someone who can replicate this problem consistently.

For example, if you make a save it takes multiple minutes, then you save again immediately and it also takes multiple minutes - that's what I'm looking for. I have a theory about what it might be and need someone I can go back and forth with to do some experiments and see if we can get to the bottom of this.

If that happens for you, and you're up for doing some tests - please DM me!

 

[Lowjax]

For me it seems completely random, I might play for a couple hours without issues, even in town and actively doing stuff/building, then seemingly out of nowhere it takes 5-10 minutes to autosave. Another time I might be playing for an hour and half that time is taken up waiting for autosave.

 

[kinggath]

I can’t believe I get to correct the brilliant kinggath!
It’s “run the gamut.” A gambit is either a ruse of some kind or the most underrated X-man.

Ha - one of those saying you hear all the time and never see written

 

[smitty420]

Dunno if this helps, but I’m getting long quick save right now inside the Cabot house. Jack just left for parsons, I went to save before following him and it’s been about 2 mins. I remember Cabot house always taking forever to load in even in unmodded vanilla, but if it’s a base game issue being exacerbated by SS2 maybe it’s a good place to look. Save completed while I was typing this, about 3 minutes i guess.

 

[eldiablo]

Hey Kinggath. I might have something you can use. I did two console saves back to back and there is a two script difference between the two via resaver. Never left the console while saving. Here is a screenshot. I don't have the insanely long save times as some here, but the first save took about a minute (which is abnormally long for my system), while the second save was under 5 seconds.

Edit: There's also a one difference Function Message (no idea what this is, maybe useless) that's labeled MSC simsettlementssv2:objectreferences:simplot with a getLinkedRef.

 

[Cuatela]

Our testers' systems definitely run the gambit of potato to superbeast!

If we can get confirmation from any of you digging in with this testing that the issue happens WITHOUT Chapter 2 having ever been installed - but just the 2.0.0 update to SS2 and 2.0.17 update to WSFW, that would narrow down the issue quite a bit.

The fact that the issue seems to happen more frequently when near a settlement definitely helps with some ideas - and also may act as a potential workaround for folks having the issue (ie. they can save far from settlements, such as in an interior or an alternate worldspace like Diamond City).

I can definitely confirm that the issue seems to be local to SS2 settlements specifically. For example, I have several settlements that don't have any SS2 plots on them, and I don't have any issues with saving or fast travel from those settlements.

Right now, I only have SS2 plots at Starlight Drive-In and Sunshine Tidings Co-Op. Both of those have the issues I mentioned previously.
In addition to those two, I have Sanctuary Hills, Red Rocket, Abernathy Farms, Greentop Nursery, and the Castle. These settlements are mostly left alone (except adding extra water and heavy turrets for defense), do not have any SS2 plots on them, and I can save/autosave and fast travel without any issues.

I can also fast travel into the HQ, and don't seem to have any issues saving while inside/outside, but I did notice a lot of FPS drop while sleeping (i.e. the mouse was slow and jerky, and the timer counted a lot slower than I expected). Not sure if that's related to the other issue.

No issues with other SS2 locations either. Ron's and Concord both seem to be fine. Vault 75 had a fair amount of FPS drop (same with the initial HQ event), but I didn't have any issues saving.

I'll try testing without Ch2 to see if I get the same results.

- Edit -

Removed Chapter 2, started a new game and went directly to Starlight. Gave myself the holotape, cheated to complete all the quests. Waited for all of that to finish processing. Saved the game without issues. Built a desk and the basic city plan, waited for that to process. After the initial build finished, I could immediately tell there was a slight FPS drop, at least for a couple seconds. I waited about 5 minutes to give the plots time to process. Was able to save (Escape -> Save), but when I tried to fast travel, the game froze and crashed to desktop.

So the behavior seems to be more or less the same with or without Chapter 2 installed, at least for me.


- Edit 2 -

Just adding on because I don't like multi-posting. I did a little more testing with my main save (with both SS2 + Ch2) to see if I could narrow down when the game freeze/crashes and when it doesn't. I got the auto-quest to defend Sunshine Tidings, so I fast traveled there from just outside HQ. Fought off the raiders, and realized I didn't have any defenses set up. Apparently I crashed after building them the first time, and never went back to fix it. Anyway, this time after building the defenses, I ran south to the Federal Stockpile, fought my way to the door and went inside. Transitioning to an interior worked fine. I immediately went back outside, also worked fine (no extended saves). Kept walking south away from Sunshine until I got the message that the radio beacon signal had been lost. I assumed that was far enough away, tried to do a normal save, and immediately froze and crashed.
Restarted the game, and the normal save was bugged (incomplete file, I guess). The last auto-save, just outside the stockpile, did work. Just to be safe though, I went to the autosave from the interior and immediately tried to do a normal save while inside. Immediately froze and crashed again.
Restarted again, back to the interior autosave, and this time I just let the game sit until I hadn't seen any settlement upgrade messages. This time the normal save worked.

Now here's the fun part. I backed up that interior autosave and the last normal save, and opened both in ReSaver to see if anything was obviously different between the two.
1. The autosave had 109,167 script instances, 2,426 script definitions, and 47 active scripts, and the large majority of the active scripts were simsettlementsv2.objectreferences, with 2 of them being "simplot", 26 being spotlightmanuallytriggered. Also had 2 quests:plotmanager and 5 quests:ss2_mq22_battlemanager.
2. The normal save (standing in the same spot as the autosave) had 109,314 script instances, 2,425 script definitions, but only 31 active scripts, and all of the simplot scripts were gone. The mq22_battlemanager was still there, as were the 26 spotlightmanuallytriggered.

I'm thinking that the spotlight bit was the spotlight outside the stockpile, which was still ticking away when I went inside..

For further comparison, the test run I did without chapter 2 had 74,735 script instances, 2,169 script definitions, and 22 active scripts. Of those 22 active scripts, 3 were objectreference:simplot, 4 were quests:plotmanager, and 3 were quests:npc_assignmentmanager. Granted, that save was on the actual plot and about 5-10 minutes after the initial build.

Unfortunately I don't have any "extra-long" saves to compare, because the game either saves normally or freezes completely.

 

[smitty420]

Had a thought while reading the latest patch notes:

Everyone is treating this as though the game is not saving properly. Twice I've had them hang so long that I Alt-F4'd out of the game. Both times I had the very save that I thought frozen available, and both times I loaded in a continued playing without a hitch.

Is it possible that the game is saving normally but not returning to its normal state afterwards? It would explain why saves are taking longer despite SS2 not touching the save process, and possibly why it happens on fast travel even with autosave disabled. The game is doing what we're asking it to do, it's just getting lost in Jim Breuer land on the way back.

Keep in mind I'm barely IT proficient, and this could be complete nonsense, but it seems like if a save were getting stuck it wouldn't be available for me to load after hard-closing and restarting the game.

 

[wleer72]

My personal experience with SS2 so far is thus (I do love and enjoy it a lot, despite what I'm gonna say afterwards :D )

I'm playing on a pretty low spec laptop and I think, most of my problems are because of it.

from my observation, when settlements are small, with few settlers and low level buildings, everything runs ok. but once I unlock more buildings and settlements grow in size, population, building variants and levels, problems start.

aside from low FPS (thats pretty normal for me), I get very slow reaction on every action I do, for example, placing a plot, choosing a specific type of building on said plot, game takes really long to assign an NPC to it, to calculate required resources and build it. I do get a medium to high amount of CTDs in large settlements, especially when I fast travel to them. and lastly, after updating to 2.0 version, I have really long save times, mostly when I'm in or near a large settlement.

one not so reliable fix I came up with, is just standing and not moving, or turning around, once I fast travel to a settlement for couple of minutes, in that case, crashes are rare.

another thing I noticed, I have a one fully robot settlement at greygarden, never had an issue with it, but that said, I only have power plots and couple of defence plots there. I did have two crashes there, but those happened after I sent curie there.

imo, all of those problems are connected to scripts somehow, and how game handles new scripts added with SS2 and my laptop being slow, really makes everything worse. gonna try Bakascrapheap and see how things change.

another thing I'm going to try, is install everything on my friends PC, which has a lot more juice and see how things work there.

I have a powerful rig (, 8700k 3090 asus strix oc) and I still have the issues you mentioned sanctuary with 43 settlers ctd alot and couple saves womt load. But I used scrap everything and broke some precombines.

 

[Flexolite]

I tested with last 2.0.0d still slow save, but i run Holotape -> Tools -> Recalculate cost and production. i waited like 10min. Now saves on 1-3 seg, sometines take 4-7seg, its significant improve.

 

[Alpha0n3]

My personal experience is that it has a tie to Chapter 2: to lessen script load, I split updating into two (first updating WSFW/SS2 and going to a smaller interior cell to make a new save, then adding Chapter 2), and consistently it has been after Chapter 2 was added that saving issues started. However, it is possible that it is something in SS2 proper that Chapter 2 exacerbates.

No, I dont have Chapter 2 but still freezes on save occurs almost every 4th save (autosave, quicksave or fast travel)

 

[Lord1]

No, I dont have Chapter 2 but still freezes on save occurs almost every 4th save (autosave, quicksave or fast travel)

"Personal experience" is a key word there. Reports are pretty disparate here about when it showed up, but the one common thread is 'after 2.0/Chapter 2 released'. I should also note that after 2.0.0c, for me it got worse in SS2 proper than in previous versions, but was no longer affected by Chapter 2. All in all, a very tricky issue.