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Save File Issue - Potential Fix Here

Martend

Member
Patreon Supporter
Messages
98
Another thing I was thinking was... has anyone tried playing a modded game that has SS2, WSFW and SS2 - Chapter 2 installed, but without actually doing any of the quests, using the holotape or anything else to 'start' the SS2, quest lines etc.,.? Just to see if the problem rears itself with just the inclusion of the data files (which it shouldn't) and other mods. Then after a certain amount of time, start the main quest but don't build anything. Play for a bit, testing the save times, then build the first residential plot. Play for a bit... save some... to try and see at what point it seems to appear?

From what I've read, it seems to happen after industrial plots, which I'm using RoTC and it doesn't happen all the time, it's very random but I'm thinking it didn't start until I fired off SS2 using RoTC (not implying the problem is with RoTC, it just uses SS2 functions). Here's a sampling where each time SS2 was started without using (or necessarily picking up) the holotape and just from the MCM settings:

watching for un-responsive task: 'Fallout4(24136)'.
'Fallout4(24136)' was un-responsive for '5' seconds.
'Fallout4(24136)' was un-responsive for '4' seconds.
'Fallout4(24136)' was un-responsive for '48' seconds.
killing un-responsive task: 'Fallout4(24136)'.

watching for un-responsive task: 'Fallout4(21604)'.
'Fallout4(21604)' was un-responsive for '1' seconds.
'Fallout4(21604)' was un-responsive for '15' seconds.
'Fallout4(21604)' was un-responsive for '11' seconds.
killing un-responsive task: 'Fallout4(21604)'.

watching for un-responsive task: 'Fallout4(16604)'.
'Fallout4(16604)' was un-responsive for '1' seconds.
'Fallout4(16604)' was un-responsive for '4' seconds.
'Fallout4(16604)' was un-responsive for '10' seconds.
'Fallout4(16604)' was un-responsive for '160' seconds.
'Fallout4(16604)' was un-responsive for '60' seconds.
end task resource monitoring: 'Fallout4(22096)'. <--- normal quit game.

This is from 3 gaming sessions (sorry about the time stamps, I'll code that in here in just a sec). When the 'Fallout4.exe" was auto-killed it was because it was waiting over a set tolerance (60 seconds). I've upped to 180secs, or 3mins, to see if most saves fall within that range. Interestingly, the time the game is un-responsive goes up, then middles out (without further sampling I can't tell it it will go up again and always middle out).

Normally the snapshot only takes a second most of the time, it's a moderately modded game, with at least 5 settlements somehwere in the RoTC building it all framework (though realistic build times is ON).

Quick Edit Note: All the 'un-responsives' were detected when trying to save the game.
I run a full modded game, with most SS2 add-ons installed. Exceptions are RotC and the large junk fence addon. At first after leaving the Vault I talk with Cods, follow him around shoot some things, then I put my scrap bot at work, while it is scrapping the Settlement I visit the museum grab the 5 and return to Sanctuary, I then pick up the magazine, build the beacon and meet the awesome Stranger. I lay the plot down, he shoots off, I visit him, we return. Till that point not a single save issue. Every time within a second I have a new save.
The save game bug kicks in after laying the first plots, when you've met Paul and Lilly.

Like your figures shows when SS2 starts doing it's things it's consuming process power.
When you manual save at that point the freeze happens since the game and SS2 both want to dump their records in the save file, the result is something like a buffer overflow.
When you compare the actual size of save files pre chapter 2 and now, there is also a notable difference. After 3 days IRL 8+ hours play time with chapter 1 I reached with save220 a file size of 47.626kb. at save 16 it was 23.613kb With chapter 2 installed I'm at 31.428kb and not even close to save nr 16.
When I go to Tenpines for the first time (when the save is done) I can run and press the manual save and have instant saving back.
This behaviour repeats itself everytime when you are near a settlement with plots or just have placed plots. It's confirmd by several users, all who have exactly the same mod setup as I have. Maybe this is usefull info.
 

jpowzy

New Member
Messages
28
Yeah, most people are reporting it after building 2 or 3 plots in “if I had a hammer.” I made it all the way through, all 16 plots, without a single slow save. Then I go to tenpines, clear corvega for the 100th time (is there a mod that changes that quest location? Corvega sucks and so does its bobble head.) then back to sanctuary to drop off my junk, then I got my first slow save. Now it seems to be back to normal (slow saves in settlement) but the duration of the save seems to be related to the number of plots.
Yeah I just did a new start. Was saving fine up until Jake arrived and built the first house. Save issue immediately after the house was done.
 

Mystical Panda

Active Member
Messages
139
Yeah, I'm thinking it has to do with either 'load balancing' which would effect threading, or shared variables- maybe both. Where too much is trying to happen at once... maybe a queue of some sort controlled by a user defined value where only so many changes can happen simutaneously? Not sure.

Of note, I'll include some images of screenshots I took where the game crashed a few times within just minutes of itself(I think 4 to be precise). Looking at the successful saves, they had 'suspended' stacks which were from SS2. It's seems like quite a few to me, but I don't know that much about the game's VM. After it cleared itself up(no more 'suspended stacks' in the game saves) there were quite a few SS2 messages coming in about a settlement upgrade (Abernathy Farm) anywhere from entertainment, to agriculture to living quarters(unfortunately I didn't note the exact messages), the crashing stopped and I was able to play for over 2 hours without a problem other than the long saves which started after SS2 starting auto building a settlement. It seemed to happen almost immediately and continued for a bit.

I've attached 2 images and a filtered log trace, hope it helps. Note, all the un-responsives happened while trying to save the current game whether it was done manual, auto or quick.
 

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Mystical Panda

Active Member
Messages
139
I'll try to keep feeding more info, best I can, as I progress through the game, here's a low-down on this quick test and if you need the game saves, just let me know which ones you need:

(game session begins...)

[12/29/2021 9:24:38 PM] watching for un-responsive task: 'Fallout4(1088)'.
[12/29/2021 9:24:38 PM] begin monitoring task resource usage: 'Fallout4(1088)'.

(manual, auto and quick saves during game play...)

[12/29/2021 9:26:44 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075143PM.132852991029200000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:26:45 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075143PM.132852991029200000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:29:28 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075212PM.132852991318580000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:29:30 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075212PM.132852991318580000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:32:40 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075335PM.132852992145820000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:32:42 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075335PM.132852992145820000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:33:05 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075451PM.132852992904900000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:33:07 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075451PM.132852992904900000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:33:35 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075517PM.132852993169830000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:33:36 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075517PM.132852993169830000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:34:16 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075635PM.132852993943570000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:34:18 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075635PM.132852993943570000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:35:06 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075847PM.132852995267540000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:35:07 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_075847PM.132852995267540000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:36:55 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092407PM.132852995893130000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:36:56 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092407PM.132852995893130000.f4se'.

(suspended SS2 stacks started- see screenshot #6)

[12/29/2021 9:39:00 PM] 'Fallout4(1088)' was un-responsive for '18' seconds.


[12/29/2021 9:39:25 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092407PM.132852996908020000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:39:27 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092407PM.132852996908020000.f4se'.

(suspended stacks cleared- implies the save waits for suspended stacks to clear- see screenshot #7)

[12/29/2021 9:40:21 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_080206PM.132852997241390000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:40:23 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_080206PM.132852997241390000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:41:28 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092642PM.132853048015790000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:41:30 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092642PM.132853048015790000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:42:54 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092927PM.132853049657390000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:42:56 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_092927PM.132853049657390000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:44:02 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093238PM.132853051577390000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:44:04 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093238PM.132853051577390000.f4se'.

(archive backing itself up...)

[12/29/2021 9:44:04 PM] archive complete 'gamesaves_2021-12-29_094404PM.zip'...

(saving games after combat, etc.,.)

[12/29/2021 9:45:23 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093303PM.132853051823170000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:45:23 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093303PM.132853051823170000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:46:15 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093332PM.132853052115340000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:46:15 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093332PM.132853052115340000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:47:02 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093413PM.132853052530370000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:47:02 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093413PM.132853052530370000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:48:00 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093503PM.132853053026420000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:48:00 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093503PM.132853053026420000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:48:31 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093652PM.132853054119740000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:48:32 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093652PM.132853054119740000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:49:31 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093923PM.132853055627520000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:49:31 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_093923PM.132853055627520000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:50:17 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094018PM.132853056174740000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:50:17 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094018PM.132853056174740000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:52:10 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094125PM.132853056849210000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:52:10 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094125PM.132853056849210000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:55:00 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094251PM.132853057702980000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:55:01 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094251PM.132853057702980000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:56:56 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094359PM.132853058391360000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:56:56 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094359PM.132853058391360000.f4se'.
[12/29/2021 9:57:12 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094522PM.132853059214160000.fos'.
[12/29/2021 9:57:13 PM] archived game save: '(michael)Dee_Wallace.lvl18.Commonwealth._2021-12-29_094522PM.132853059214160000.f4se'.

(suspended stacks from the last save had increased to 71... crash!- see screenshot #10)

(removed these items from the log...)

(!game crash!- see screenshot#9 the last entry actual crash 'event'...)
 

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ThunderboltDragon

Well-Known Member
Patreon Supporter
Messages
212
I have a new record regarding "long saves". I went to bed at about 22.30 yesterday evening and when I checked the game this morning about 9 hours later it still hadn't finished.
 

DocDeath666

New Member
Messages
25
was going in to do wel wel wel but the quest is unplayable the game frezz up in the tunel constantly and if you get to the maintains door the game just lock up in inffinite load screen if you need more info just let me know
 

ThunderboltDragon

Well-Known Member
Patreon Supporter
Messages
212
I have a new record regarding "long saves". I went to bed at about 22.30 yesterday evening and when I checked the game this morning about 9 hours later it still hadn't finished.
Problem seemed to be related to Buddy. If I had activated him I could neither save or leave Shamrock. However if I didn't bother with him I could leave just fine.
 

nosfsos

Active Member
Messages
280
Would it be possible to look at the data structures 22mb into the save file to determine what's being saved at that point? Even though a snap shot is being taken, I'm assuming it's just 'variables' and not static 'structures' like esp records, etc., though the engine might try and access them for some reason or another and seeing what's being written at that time might help point to a potential cause.
I asked that around already. That would be awesome, but I don't think there is. On yesterday's live stream, Kinggath mentioned that the saved are serialized sequentially by the order you add mods (I assume the load order in the case of a new save). But the file is still binary and resave cannot 'sort by timestamp' or anything like that.

Also, all the information it would give us would be the last serialized thing and not the one that's causing the hang on serialization. In conclusion, it's something hard to pull and probably won't produce any meaningful results.

I'm more integrated about the reports of people having long save times even before building any plot. Tomorrow I'll do some tests in a new file, ignore SS2 quests and try to narrow down what's triggering the long saves.

As for my current playthrough, it keeps consistent. Changing the virtual storage space cause a long save. Fast travel to a settlement causes a long load (autosave is off... this is different than the long save, cause the game is not unresponsive... it just takes a long time to load).


Some very interesting new information in the past few posts, unfortunately, today I don't have time to explore that, but I'll read them carefully tomorrow.
 

XxA1xX

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,429
Has anybody tried turning all the resource reliance and storage stuff off and seeing if that changes anything. There’s only so many things this can be and if it’s not the power check system and not the disease system that leaves very few options either resources , resource tracking , and the hq and attack system. The hq and attack system isn’t doing anything at the start that leaves resources virtual storage and resource tracking scripts.
 

Lowjax

Active Member
Messages
257
I've specifically built just residential and agriculture, then tried just residential. Still about the same, 8-10 plots and slow save guaranteed regardless of what kind. That's with just WSFW, SS2 and HUDFramework. Tried shutting off the pop-up stats on buildings, tried not starting SS2 quest (unlock plot types with holotape.) Clean save, new game, minimal video settings, nothing makes a difference. Buffout and Baka help some, but still 5 minutes is not unusual if I just enter workshop mode. I have not had any issues if I don't build any SS2 plots, even if I do start the SS2 main quest (cheat skip needing to build plots) up to Well, well, well (didn't bother going any further.)
 

jpowzy

New Member
Messages
28
This post may be a little premature, but I reduced multithreading from 50 down to 10 in Workshop framework and haven' had a Save issue since.

Questline:
I've done VaultTek HQ with Jake, met 'The Ron' Oh yeahhhh!, did all Vault 88 quests including the vanilla's, returned the vitomatic to Jake, built commercial, rec, mil and municipal plots all while saving every step of the way and not a single issue.
 

ElanaLoaded

Well-Known Member
Messages
878
Yeah, most people are reporting it after building 2 or 3 plots in “if I had a hammer.” I made it all the way through, all 16 plots, without a single slow save. Then I go to tenpines, clear corvega for the 100th time (is there a mod that changes that quest location? Corvega sucks and so does its bobble head.) then back to sanctuary to drop off my junk, then I got my first slow save. Now it seems to be back to normal (slow saves in settlement) but the duration of the save seems to be related to the number of plots.
Corvega, boring after so many 'visits.' Now I just go god mode, with hard rock battle music, and get the dang thing over with muy rapido!
 

Lowjax

Active Member
Messages
257
This post may be a little premature, but I reduced multithreading from 50 down to 10 in Workshop framework and haven' had a Save issue since.

Questline:
I've done VaultTek HQ with Jake, met 'The Ron' Oh yeahhhh!, did all Vault 88 quests including the vanilla's, returned the vitomatic to Jake, built commercial, rec, mil and municipal plots all while saving every step of the way and not a single issue.
That's one thing I didn't try, game runs great except save time so I never thought of that.
 

Saito404

Active Member
Messages
177
This post may be a little premature, but I reduced multithreading from 50 down to 10 in Workshop framework and haven' had a Save issue since.
Did that. The first two saves in Sanctuary were fast, the third one took 20-30 sec, after that again saves were fast. So it reduced the frequency of long saves maybe? Save times were inconsistent before for me.
 
D

Deleted member 10215

Guest
The location given by Preston for "The First Step" (which is usually Tenpines) and where they want you to go (which is usually Corvega) is actually Radiant, but the way it's "weighted" means that's 99.99999% what you're going to get.
(hint: notice they never actually verbally NAME locations, just say "nearby" or whatever; that's a clue it's Radiant or at least dynamically generated rather than hardcoded)
 
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Mystical Panda

Active Member
Messages
139
I've specifically built just residential and agriculture, then tried just residential. Still about the same, 8-10 plots and slow save guaranteed regardless of what kind. That's with just WSFW, SS2 and HUDFramework. Tried shutting off the pop-up stats on buildings, tried not starting SS2 quest (unlock plot types with holotape.) Clean save, new game, minimal video settings, nothing makes a difference. Buffout and Baka help some, but still 5 minutes is not unusual if I just enter workshop mode. I have not had any issues if I don't build any SS2 plots, even if I do start the SS2 main quest (cheat skip needing to build plots) up to Well, well, well (didn't bother going any further.)
Well that seems to rule out SS2 Chapter 2 being the culprit. Have you tried 'rolling back' by doing a fresh game with a previous version of SS2 just to see when it no longer has 'long saves'?

It might help to track down the code changes from the version that that didn't have it, to the version that did. Change logs can be scant for an end user, but code changes script wise would be easy to check by comparing both scripts in text form by a developer.
 

XxA1xX

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,429
This post may be a little premature, but I reduced multithreading from 50 down to 10 in Workshop framework and haven' had a Save issue since.

Questline:
I've done VaultTek HQ with Jake, met 'The Ron' Oh yeahhhh!, did all Vault 88 quests including the vanilla's, returned the vitomatic to Jake, built commercial, rec, mil and municipal plots all while saving every step of the way and not a single issue.
What about the auto saves ? For me that’s the killer regular was like 30-1min auto saves was like 5 mins plus. So if this can help with autosaves then it’s perfect.
 

Lowjax

Active Member
Messages
257
Well that seems to rule out SS2 Chapter 2 being the culprit. Have you tried 'rolling back' by doing a fresh game with a previous version of SS2 just to see when it no longer has 'long saves'?

It might help to track down the code changes from the version that that didn't have it, to the version that did. Change logs can be scant for an end user, but code changes script wise would be easy to check by comparing both scripts in text form by a developer.
I have not tried rolling back, I had three towns going good with 1.1.0b without issue. However, that was with the older WSFW and I had not gotten HUDFramework until updating to 2.0.
Limited hard drive space so I've removed the older versions. Good idea though, use the newer WSFW and HUDFramework with the SS2 1.1.0b if it will work. I might try that, but not until after the weekend.
 
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