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M&M - Minutemen & Manor

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Right, I spent several hours putting in plots, just to play around with which ones I want and where I want them.
I :heart that we can move the plots in SS2 and not have them reset to level 1 !!!!!!....!!!
I'm thinking (after exploring and finding the headhunter INT training plot) I will make the build a Minuteman Recruitment and Training Center.
So a slightly more developed Gatehouse and nearby structures...
Croup gate 2.jpg
 

afz

Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
40
Yeah indeed it's nice that the plots can be moved, of course sometimes I've noticed the power poles don't get moved but that's a minor thing.
 

Karvoc

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Patreon Supporter
City Planner (S3)
Verified Builder
Wiki Contributor
Messages
1,001
That looks very cool.
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
@afz, I had a pop-up message that mentions the power poles remaining is intentional - so as to reduce possible save corruptions - Just means you need to disconnect and delete it.
Well I spent a lot of time cycling through build menus today looking for things, so it was a little slower progress.
Back on my building save without the plots placed.

Today a look at the other side of the settlement, with a path down to a simple (as yet unbuilt) dock, will think about a crane to lift stuff up to the top. The concrete pad out front of the building is for Ohnno's Lower Power Station. On top of that will sit the municipal communications plot, and the thing sticking out from the second floor landing will give access to the balcony of that plot.

Croup Dock.jpg
 

Rudy

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
City Planner (S3)
Wiki Contributor
Messages
415
Looking really good!
 

afz

Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
40
@GavMan yeah disconnect and delete is what I've been doing with them posts, looking good btw!
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Spent some time picking the residential plots today.
Still need to work on the main house, I will be putting artillery in somewhere.
Not sure of a console command to get them into the workshop, Might go to another save game who has done Big Guns, empty Croup except for a couple of artillery pieces and export/import into build save.

Anyways here's some of the latest pics
CroupPlotsL3a.jpgCroupPlotsL3b.jpg
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
I think I am nearly done with Level 3
It must be time to deconstruct and add shabbiness :crazy

Croup Courtyard.jpg
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
I'm having a break from building for a week, but here is a night shot of level 1
More finishing touches left to do now so on schedule :)
Croup L1 Night.jpg
 

Karvoc

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Patreon Supporter
City Planner (S3)
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Messages
1,001
so nice and clean.
 

kinggath

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Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
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Messages
4,560
@GavMan If you already generated your plugin file, just FYI I fixed a bug on the server with our Croup Manor data, so you'll want to regenerate it.

If you haven't made it to that step yet, then nothing to worry about!
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Right, back from a week away, (NZ doesn't have movement/lockdown restrictions at the moment), and I sat down to put a few last touches on the levels to export layouts to find issues...

Looks like some WRK items that you can't pick up/become selectable when placed outside of the build zone can magically reappear in your city plans lower levels if you used markfordelete on them (at the higher levels) - at least they become console selectable in the city plan levels, so I will try to console shift them back into build zone and attempt to scrap or just bury them and re-export those levels.

I thought that would be a pain, however, I saw a new Kinggath video for the latest update and began watching... then came a slap and jaw drop... oh crap - recreational plots are a third type of assignment (too much SS1, guess I should have played more than a couple of weeks of SS2 before starting the build competition). So my new pain is reworking the levels, plot balance, and adjusting objects to fit them all - Not looking forward to introducing new build objects and trying to match them up exactly in the same position across different levels to avoid having to rebuild on city plan level up. (I tried Workshop Plus layers but hiding the default still leaves quite a number objects still showing).

Lessons Learned:
1. Always start your workshop plus layers at the very beginning of your build.
2. Save your game for working on lower levels before you shift those quirky WRK objects outside the build zone.
3. :) know how the plots work.
4. With the use of Better Console mod, (to save time looking up each individual X,Y,Z pos/angle) you can use "SetPos X {insert value}" or Y or Z commands to get objects/plots in the same position across levels - the SetAngle X {insert value} doesn't always work as intended although its easy with Better Console to manually rotate at 0.1 step (with Place Everywhere) to get it just right.

So, here's hoping I can get it done, tested and uploaded before the close off.
 
Last edited:

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Well, If you are on cinematic and have selected the plots to upgrade with the city plan, it seems you can do more than just go have a coffee break... Level 2 to 3 spinning around Croup Manor for 45 minutes! In saying that my level 3 has 20 Residential, 7 Recreational, and 20 other plot types, so give or take a minute to upgrade each.
I'm now into the finding issues phase, looking for floating things that need grounding or wrong level/selected plots etc
But I am happy to be back testing on my normal profile including NAC:X, Luxor8071's textures, and spring seasons.
(Allows me to set Minuteman on flags on the city planner desk for the dynamic flags. I have also used set Minuteman flags as dynamic flags dont hold any re-sizing - when they change they reset to 100% size)
These pics are all from Level 3
Croup1.jpg
View after coming through the entrance "tunnel"
Croup2.jpg
A place to sit and look out to sea
Croup3.jpg
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Ran the Check my settlement Junk storage requirements....
OK so I need a few more boxes
Croup junk.jpg

Then after creating my what I though was All Done! city plan... I found a settler seated on a bench.
Re-enacted as shown
Crouplegless.jpg
So a change and now to re type and create my new All Done! city plan.
Next step - take some screenshots and write up a description and information. All in the time left before contest close...
but what about time of day, the lay of shadows, weather selection, l think I might go pretty basic to begin with and then add more as I get them,
so on track for release soon (just).
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Right the City Plan is up (along with a layout for each level in optional files)
Minutemen and Manor
mod page.png
But not without issues - that I can't seem to fix alone
  • There's a power grid error when upgrading the city plan, yet when importing the separate layouts I was not getting power grid issues.
  • There's the custom scrap profile which works on some things but not others
  • There's a plot that wont shift up to level 3 when it should
I toyed with the idea to just leave it festering on my PC not releasing it, but this way I might get some feedback/ideas to fix the issues.

Reviewing how long I spent on the building of each level by looking at the save file times:
  • Level 3 - 49 hours
  • Level 2 - 32 hours
  • Level 1 - 14 hours
  • Level 0 - 11 hours
That's 106 hours, not including the time spent plot planning/selecting, (I think I spent 4 hours figuring out I wanted the Herbalist Haven plot - changing building types over and over and waiting while I upgraded each to level 3, looking at it and deciding which best fit my vision)
Creating additional features to add in across all levels like for junk storage (involved placing items in the level, recording their positions, going to an empty settlement, placing and positions items and then transfer that set into each level, and editing them back down to be appropriate for each level)
I would estimate that there would be another 25 hours there easily. Then there is the testing, and waiting (for up to 45min for 2>3) for the plan to upgrade to check and find something is out of place, or wrong rotation for me to add to the spreadsheet for later.
Croup Spread.jpg

But now I can relax, for a day, until April's competition starts.

20210328132307_1.jpg
 

GavMan

Well-Known Member
City Planner (S3)
Messages
257
Something I did not know - Junk storage requires defense at a rate of 1 to every 100 storage.
Which as I foolishly just piled on the Junk storage that the City Plan Contest Assistant told me I needed, the Minutemen at the Manor will probably be defending it... a lot.
(I guess I did set it up as a training center, I just wasn't thinking along the lines of combat).

Explanation of the problem (Copy of my post on the mods discussion page)...

WARNING for version 1.0

The Defense values are far too low. I am working on an update.
I was not aware that junk storage adds defense requirements, (and have put a heap in).


I only found out when I turned the SS2's Info Box: Hover Display to ON, and happen to pause over a junk storage and saw it requires defense.

The City Plan Contest Assistant has a feature to calculate how much junk storage is needed for upgrading city plan levels.
It is run at the level above to find how much is needed for the previous level - my vague understanding is that the amount is what will be require to meet scraps requirements to upgrade. You can have less storage in the settlement, but it will draw on the caravans to meet requirements.
I used the amounts that were given and threw in a couple of extras.
But I also didn't take into account the extra storage from the industrial plots. L1:600, L2:1200, L3:1800 each.

How bad is it? Pretty bad.
Not enough really of a fix to throw in a few extra turrets. (you could but the walls would be bristling with turrets)
If you had really good storage in other settlements you could delete a number of junk storage boxes.

Here's the Breakdown

Foundation Level (0)
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant about 6500
Version 1.0 has 2 excess 500 boxes over requirements
Getting rid of those would still leave a deficit of 50 Defense
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, add some turrets, a new Martial plot, (this is difficult as it should really be a basic level 1 with a settler not having been trained up in agility).
Level 1
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant about 18000
Version 1.0 has 2 excess 500 boxes over requirements
Getting rid of those would still leave a deficit of 142 Defense
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, turrets from level 1, advanced Martial plot (65) - still a major shortfall here will require more thinking.
Level 2
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant about 34000
Version 1.0 has 10 excess 500 boxes over requirements
Getting rid of those would still leave a deficit of 221 Defense
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, change the shell of the Laser cannon to the actual level 2 Martial plot (140 Def), plus the previous level's martial plot now at level 2(85). Should be fine.
Level 3
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant isn't needed I guess and any amount will be surplus you can use for other settlements waiting to upgrade
You could easily get rid of 20 excess 500 boxes and still have a surplus of 34000.
Getting rid of those would exceed defense requirements by 20 (Yay!)
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, work in to match the changes from lower levels, could possible get rid of the extra martial plot.

Layout users: If you went straight to Level 3 using the Layout, just delete around 20 boxes and all should be good.


I'm sorry for the inconvenience of those who have already downloaded it.
Personally I'm pretty devastated that I didn't pick this up.
As this was a contest entry I had the time pressure of getting everything done. I had put in the junk boxes about three days before the deadline. I then began my testing and quickly found the power grid issue - which sucked up much of my time (upgrading through the levels was taking a good hour and a half each time, finding that I was still getting the error, making changes and repeating the process several times).
And like I said it was only when I had turned on the hover display I gained a little more awareness of the mechanics of junk storage in SS2.

Hopefully I can get it sorted in a few days.



 

FEAROFCAPS

Active Member
City Planner (S3)
Wiki Contributor
Messages
164
Something I did not know - Junk storage requires defense at a rate of 1 to every 100 storage.
Which as I foolishly just piled on the Junk storage that the City Plan Contest Assistant told me I needed, the Minutemen at the Manor will probably be defending it... a lot.
(I guess I did set it up as a training center, I just wasn't thinking along the lines of combat).

Explanation of the problem (Copy of my post on the mods discussion page)...

WARNING for version 1.0

The Defense values are far too low. I am working on an update.
I was not aware that junk storage adds defense requirements, (and have put a heap in).


I only found out when I turned the SS2's Info Box: Hover Display to ON, and happen to pause over a junk storage and saw it requires defense.

The City Plan Contest Assistant has a feature to calculate how much junk storage is needed for upgrading city plan levels.
It is run at the level above to find how much is needed for the previous level - my vague understanding is that the amount is what will be require to meet scraps requirements to upgrade. You can have less storage in the settlement, but it will draw on the caravans to meet requirements.
I used the amounts that were given and threw in a couple of extras.
But I also didn't take into account the extra storage from the industrial plots. L1:600, L2:1200, L3:1800 each.

How bad is it? Pretty bad.
Not enough really of a fix to throw in a few extra turrets. (you could but the walls would be bristling with turrets)
If you had really good storage in other settlements you could delete a number of junk storage boxes.

Here's the Breakdown

Foundation Level (0)
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant about 6500
Version 1.0 has 2 excess 500 boxes over requirements
Getting rid of those would still leave a deficit of 50 Defense
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, add some turrets, a new Martial plot, (this is difficult as it should really be a basic level 1 with a settler not having been trained up in agility).
Level 1
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant about 18000
Version 1.0 has 2 excess 500 boxes over requirements
Getting rid of those would still leave a deficit of 142 Defense
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, turrets from level 1, advanced Martial plot (65) - still a major shortfall here will require more thinking.
Level 2
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant about 34000
Version 1.0 has 10 excess 500 boxes over requirements
Getting rid of those would still leave a deficit of 221 Defense
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, change the shell of the Laser cannon to the actual level 2 Martial plot (140 Def), plus the previous level's martial plot now at level 2(85). Should be fine.
Level 3
Requirements from City Plan Contest Assistant isn't needed I guess and any amount will be surplus you can use for other settlements waiting to upgrade
You could easily get rid of 20 excess 500 boxes and still have a surplus of 34000.
Getting rid of those would exceed defense requirements by 20 (Yay!)
Intended fix: remove excess boxes, work in to match the changes from lower levels, could possible get rid of the extra martial plot.

Layout users: If you went straight to Level 3 using the Layout, just delete around 20 boxes and all should be good.


I'm sorry for the inconvenience of those who have already downloaded it.
Personally I'm pretty devastated that I didn't pick this up.
As this was a contest entry I had the time pressure of getting everything done. I had put in the junk boxes about three days before the deadline. I then began my testing and quickly found the power grid issue - which sucked up much of my time (upgrading through the levels was taking a good hour and a half each time, finding that I was still getting the error, making changes and repeating the process several times).
And like I said it was only when I had turned on the hover display I gained a little more awareness of the mechanics of junk storage in SS2.

Hopefully I can get it sorted in a few days.



There's an option in the settings to turn off junk storage defense requirements. Although it has to be done before the junk containers are built
 
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