Anyone else feel a bit betrayed that you can't use scrap generated by the industrial plots? or any of the caps generated by the town?

[Irealys]

I know man, I wasn't responding to you. I'm fully aware of your point and I agree. I wrote many posts saying if the information was upfront a lot of frustration could have been avoided. But I was called out and I answered that person.

 

[Bored Peon]

Here is the results of using a Mark I Beacon in Cambridge Polymer Labs

That all went into virtual storage. The settler literally walks from the settlement to the location, spends a few hours there, and walks back. The settler even brought the beacon back to re-use. I think the overall duration was less than a day.

Some of you are going to say well how does that help me build a new settlement. Well the first thing you do in the new settlement is get a caravan plot. Then after it is operational all those plot costs come from your caravan network instead of your pocket.

 

[Strec]

He never said scrap, he said junk. Junk is put into the workshop, scrap is put into virtual storage. Junk can be broken down into scrap for your own use.

Yes, I was not enough precise, but it don't really change the problem of getting my basic resources. Do you think we'll get enough junk containing wood and concrete to permit base construction? To answer to the title I feel betrayed because I own a settlement, I invest time and caps in it and, when it's ready I can't really decide what to do with the production.
The empire economy introduced by SS2 is good and interesting. Forcing the player to have only this choice is bad.

@BoredPeon : your image resume exactly my problem. How to get wood and concrete to create my settlements? The way I did use with SS1 was to have lumberwoods and mines furnishing them, I can't with SS2.

 

[Bored Peon]

@BoredPeon : your image resume exactly my problem. How to get wood and concrete to create my settlements? The way I did use with SS1 was to have lumberwoods and mines furnishing them, I can't with SS2.

Please do not @me anymore. I have tried repeatedly to show you the ways to make your settlements productive in a way that benefits you.
I showed you how settlements make caps.
I showed you how they produce food.
I showed you how to use junk gathering plots.
I showed you how to save your resources and use their to build plots with.
I showed you how to quickly gather more scrap for the settlers.
I showed you that withdrawing the resources for yourself would cause operating costs to fail.

Every time you guys just ignored the advice to complain you were not just handed resources you wanted or the amount was not enough. You are beyond helping because you are too focused on the way it used to work for Sim Settlements.

Someone else was complaining they had to go visit settlements to collect caps and complained they had to visit vendors to buy stuff. If all you want to do is interact with your workshop mode and nothing else then just console yourself the resources. Better yet toggle god mode on when you build.

The empire economy introduced by SS2 is good and interesting. Forcing the player to have only this choice is bad.

You always have the choice to uninstall the mod. Just like I am making the choice to stop watching this topic before I hurt someone's feelings. I did my part to try and educate people, but obviously some people just do not want to learn.

 

[Strec]

Never I did say that the new way SS works is bad, on the contrary it is very interesting, at least on the long term and when your empire did have a good start and is growing. I just not have the point of view of "current philosophy of the mod is my god and anything done is nice".
Never I said there are problem to create plots without any personal design or running a city plan someone else made.

I just say that there is, in this version, no real way to get the basic resources (and I don't say "to easily get", just "to get") I (and some others) need to construct all the things to go around the plots and make the settlement living : roads, non-plot houses or stuff, decorations, ....

I just say, too, that these needs where covered in SS1 (Lumbermills, Mines,....) and are not in SS2 so we can say it breaks the first version in some manner.

So, to resume, I think that farm and industrial plots would have 2 options (SS2 mode injecting in the economy, SS1 mode injecting in the workbench) and ideally as a plot-based option, not a general one.

I can just hope that the dev are enough open-minded to understand that there are as many gameplays as there are players.

edit: remove the mod and or return on SS1 is just hilarious. As a modder I can affirm that cristicisms help to make a mod better and that the sheep attitude is the better one to discourage a modder because he knows his mod is not perfect and having no return means that the mod don't interest anybody.

 

[Yagisan]

I can just hope that the dev are enough open-minded to understand that there are as many gameplays as there are players.

And I hope the players understand - that the dev's work for free, and as such only work on what they want. If they don't want it, you aren't going to get it.

I just say that there is, in this version, no real way to get the basic resources (and I don't say "to easily get", just "to get") I (and some others) need to construct all the things to go around the plots and make the settlement living : roads, non-plot houses or stuff, decorations, ....

Yes, there is. It's exactly the same as vanilla. You scavenge, you use junk collection stations, you buy junk / shipments, or new in SS2, you use junk collection plots. Unlike vanilla, at least SS2 junk plots continue producing after a few hundred units of junk in the workshop.

This thread has mostly been "They changed it from SS1 and I don't like it", or "I can't do X" followed by someone showing you how to do "X", and people not being satisfied with that answer. I found the plot descriptions of what they do to be self evident when selecting them in-game. I don't think they need to be doing more hand holding than that.

Frankly speaking, a lot of you sound like you would be happier with SS1. So, why not play that instead? It's stable, it works, and it seems to be ideal for the playstyle you want.

The core gameplay loop of SS2 basically involves strip mining the Commonwealth to get your first 3-4 settlements established, and if you have done a semi-competent design of them, they will easily produce everything you need to fund an expansion assuming the first plot you build is a caravan plot. It's not a coincidence that you get that many settlements just starting up.

 

[1000101]

I feel betrayed because I own a settlement

See, now there's your problem. Despite the flag in the script being "player ownership", never in the game does it ever tell you by any settler anywhere at any time that you own the settlement. You are told that you are allowed to use the workshop or that they decided join the Minutemen. Even when the Nuka World raiders send you to take vassels, it's for them, not you.

You've been told repeatedly by several people that you need to do your own scavenging and how SS2 gives you access to things to make this easier. SS1 broke the system by putting all the resources generated into the workshop workbench where you could use them. SS2 corrected this but you preferred the broken system and thus the root cause of your complaint. Unfortunately, part of the core game loop is you scavenging.

As stated by others, if you want to make your own mod that cheats resources for you, go nuts.

Like BoredPeon, I am done with this thread as it's 7+ pages and there is no convincing you and I don't want to get flagged for saying something I shouldn't.

tl;dr: Nobody owes you a mod that does what you want.

 

[Irealys]

See, now there's your problem. Despite the flag in the script being "player ownership", never in the game does it ever tell you by any settler anywhere at any time that you own the settlement. Because you don't.

You’re trying to argue someone who said he was not happy that Bethesda called his slaves “settlers”. You’re losing your time.

 

[Strec]

See, now there's your problem......................................

I understand this point of view and perhaps I got some ease with the SS1 system and if my position is considered as whining and only whining I retire, it's not my intention.

Obtaining resources is easy, plenty of mods do that and the console also, the intention was to get some basic resource, and only some basic resource (I just said some basic resources) by some roleplay, to ameliorate the roleplay of my settlements.

Spoiler

"tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if you flagged a moderator for this post and doing so would only prove my point about whining and entitlement."
I spent the age of crying in my mother's skirts

"You’re trying to argue someone who said he was not happy that Bethesda called his slaves “settlers”. You’re losing your time."
Who did speak of respect ?

Final point for me.

 

[1000101]

I understand this point of view and perhaps I got some ease with the SS1 system and if my position is considered as whining and only whining I retire, it's not my intention.

Final point for me.

I apologize for the aggressive nature of the first iteration of my post. Sometimes when you get frustrated words happen before thought.

 

[Irealys]

"You’re trying to argue someone who said he was not happy that Bethesda called his slaves “settlers”. You’re losing your time."
Who did speak of respect ?

How am I disrespecting you? You said it. Openly. In the forums. If you find it a problem that people know that this is how you think, maybe you shouldn't post those thoughts in public.

 

[Strec]

I apologize for the aggressive nature of the first iteration of my post. Sometimes when you get frustrated words happen before thought.

No problem, I'm currently in depths of developping with Papyrus and I understand well what can be frustration

 

[DeScruff]

See, now there's your problem. Despite the flag in the script being "player ownership", never in the game does it ever tell you by any settler anywhere at any time that you own the settlement. You are told that you are allowed to use the workshop or that they decided join the Minutemen. Even when the Nuka World raiders send you to take vassels, it's for them, not you.

Not fully accurate.

When you Raid a settlement you are already allied with Shank says "Wait pretty sure that place is one of yours boss, thats where you wanna hit?" Implying some kinda ownership. And finally when talking to Sheffield and the Vault tech Sales rep, you ask them to "work for me." - Which again implies an ownership or at least leadership role.

That said I do agree it is vague... it always did feel weird that for finding a locket I could essentially take over someones home.

 

[1000101]

Not fully accurate.

When you Raid a settlement you are already allied with Shank says "Wait pretty sure that place is one of yours boss, thats where you wanna hit?" Implying some kinda ownership. And finally when talking to Sheffield and the Vault tech Sales rep, you ask them to "work for me." - Which again implies an ownership or at least leadership role.

That said I do agree it is vague... it always did feel weird that for finding a locket I could essentially take over someones home.

"Your" in English does not necessarily imply ownership. If the president of the USA is visiting another country and the president of that country says "your country" he's not implying that the American president owns the USA but that he's from or of the USA.

But you are right, the wording of some of the perks make it vague. As far as the raiders go, they think everything they can see belongs to them so they're not a good source to cite. :P The "work for me" dialogue is stronger implication of ownership but not necessarily either. If you have a friend that works as middle management in a company and they offer you a job saying "come work for me" they aren't implying they own the company.

Still, every settler makes it pretty clear in their dialogue that you don't own the settlement when they use wording like "you can use," "we decided to join" and, "thanks for your help" compared to "this place is now yours, please let us stay" or "you fulfilled your obligation as liege lord". Neither of those last two statements are in the game or ever implied. :P

Although, they probably should say "this place is now yours, please let us stay" as a lot of them can be immediately shuffled of to somewhere else. :D

 

[Strec]

AT least I solved the problem in mey slavery mod

Rule the World by building your outposts all over the country. Kill or enslave your competitors to achieve your goals...
After all you only have one slogan:
"There are only two kinds of people, the one who works for us and ...... the dead!"

 

[Lemnear]

Game mechanics clearly indicate leadership. The player can order those NPC around like you please.

Yes it is not thought through like so many things in Bethesda games. Neither Abernathy nor Finch family will even complain if you order them to move somewhere else.
Apart from that however it always made sense to me that settlements give full control to the player for Minuteman Quests. You are the General, ensuring settlements are protected and you can only do so by being able to build and order settlers around. In return they supply your growing army.

In contrast neither the BoS quest "Feeding the Troops" nor taking a vassal gives the player control over a settlement.
Though I would argue the later should. If the overboss feels like bulldozing some shacks to have room for some cage fights, who'd dare say no?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

In contrast neither the BoS quest "Feeding the Troops" nor taking a vassal gives the player control over a settlement.
Though I would argue the later should. If the overboss feels like bulldozing some shacks to have room for some cage fights, who'd dare say no?

I always enabled the "full build controls in Vassals" option in SS1:Conqueror (once that got implemented) for that very reason. Y'all can enjoy your new bunk house, I need some more slave-labor factories over here pronto.

 

[Irealys]

Apart from that however it always made sense to me that settlements give full control to the player for Minuteman Quests.

How? The real world equivalent is they called the cops to complain about gang members trying to extort money from them. I don't know for you but no matter how useful cops would be, I still wouldn't give them my land and house. For Christ sake in the case of Abernathy, they called about a stolen necklace. That's not worthy of gifting your land...

It's a game so we accept it, hell I'd say we expect it at this point. But I wouldn't call it logical. It's a video game and in this world players want to control stuff and do stuff (well, some people, some would rather use city plans )

Also, those are video game AIs, they can't change shirt without your input. So "ordering them around" is just an easy way for Bethesda to not have to program better AI.

 

[Strec]

In any case all that difficult to understand, mainly for little brains like me :

• You have total control in anything around the settlement (you can scavenge anything)
• You have total control on the workbench content
• You have total control of the settlers, you recruit them, you affect them, you can get them out of settlement

And you have no control at all on what is produced in a location you have full control, using a workbench you control fully by people under your orders...

edit : I speak evidently of Settlements you control, if you have not the control it's normal to have no return. You can also lost all controls because you've been killed by a Behemot

 

[Drakenred65]

Ok It may be the hour I'm reading this Yeeps 4 AM but I'm not sure I get the problem,

Current run through, I currently run 3 settlements(Sanctuary Red Rocket and Abernathy) + and a bunker (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/37795) that are linked by old style Caravans( Not counting Sunshine coop that Im currently ignoring with its population of 1 hippybot that im going to inflict on a grumpy ghoul, and (I'm planning on dumping a leader at Tenpines to auto build it because why not) I find that for occasionally I just fast travel to the bunker, use the linked workshops to loot everything out of the linked Default workshop inventory's, stick it back in the bunkers workshop inventory, and boom all the remote workshops resume filling up from local production again while letting me draw from the bunkers inventory at well. Granted I may have a weird combination of mods (Workshop Extended Extended seems to be the one that lets me do this but ?? ?? ??) Bunker currently has more than enough mats to auto trigger raids if the mod was set up to allow them every time. but the main thing is my last playthrough was basicaly the same.

To be blunt the only time I really need mats in the inventory is when I need to make stuff localy. Otherwise I'm often have to be reminded someone's being idle and can run a factory or shop