'Internal' / wall-less plots

To replace the power pole, why not use the conduit? I suppose the issue would be requiring DLC, or make it custom like the current connectors.

Also, I think going no walls is more flexible. Lots can be done decoration wise without putting stuff on the walls like bookcases and the like. If you want to put walls in you still could, but it is less restrictive to not have them part of the plot.

I would agree no walls is better. Walls would make placing plots more difficult.
I think every type of plot should be available but plot builders would have to decide whats actually sensible for an interior plot. No windmills or water pumps, food might be a hydrophonics lab, martial might be a protectron recharging station or a dog kennel etc.
Most plots should still be 2x2 I'd argue since this is a way to utilise buildings at settlements that we have little use for at present, not a way of cramming 50 settlers into the smallest settlements.
The 2 plots that should also have a 1x1 option are residential and martial. 1x1 residential plots would be pretty basic suitable for use in barracks or dormitories. They'd provide no tax, consume no power. The only reason for having them plots is so they can improve over time and benefit from random clutter.

Hm yes. No tax/less tax might be a valid way to balance the missing power requirement.
Even though I turned off taxes completely. I'm swimming in caps even without them.

pra said:

Hm yes. No tax/less tax might be a valid way to balance the missing power requirement.
Even though I turned off taxes completely. I'm swimming in caps even without them.

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Maybe a happiness penalty instead or as well. Even if its only -1 thats per settler. If everybody is in barracks it would be as bad as one of the unpopular industrial buildings.

Well, why not just count them as power consumers but skip the actual connection bit.

Re the size of the plots, I don't really get the "to easy argument" with 1x1. Just put fewer in your houses and that's solved.

I do however see a benefit of having varied sized plots, like with martial plots, of 1x1 or 2x2 (and why not 2x1's), then the modders could fill them with different stuff. Guess 1x1's would be primarily sleeping places, where as the 2x2's could feautre tables and sofas (or whatever) in addition to the bed.

NikVilKok said:

Re the size of the plots, I don't really get the "to easy argument" with 1x1. Just put fewer in your houses and that's solved.

I do however see a benefit of having varied sized plots, like with martial plots, of 1x1 or 2x2 (and why not 2x1's), then the modders could fill them with different stuff. Guess 1x1's would be primarily sleeping places, where as the 2x2's could feautre tables and sofas (or whatever) in addition to the bed.

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I agree with this. And don't forget wall plots that you can snap to the walls too. That way you can adhere shelves filled with random stuff in them to the walls, or randomize pictures and posters. Or... even have hanging wall gardens that you can farm, like this one:

Cool wall garden ^^

I think wall gardens have so much potential... and there's plenty of real life designs to draw inspiration from. It's been something I've wanted for a long time, so that I could finally create a decent greenhouse room in the vaults. the regular plants and the sim settlement crops are sometimes too big to fit in regular vault rooms unless you make the rooms ridiculously large.

Not to mention, it would also be useful in places with limited space, like hangman alley.

NikVilKok said:

Well, why not just count them as power consumers but skip the actual connection bit.

Re the size of the plots, I don't really get the "to easy argument" with 1x1. Just put fewer in your houses and that's solved.

I do however see a benefit of having varied sized plots, like with martial plots, of 1x1 or 2x2 (and why not 2x1's), then the modders could fill them with different stuff. Guess 1x1's would be primarily sleeping places, where as the 2x2's could feautre tables and sofas (or whatever) in addition to the bed.

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I can see players cramming houses full of 1x1 plots and then complaining when the settlers can't navigate between them. I just think larger plots that aren't crammed full of stuff would probably work better.

AmazonQueen said:

I can see players cramming houses full of 1x1 plots and then complaining when the settlers can't navigate between them. I just think larger plots that aren't crammed full of stuff would probably work better.

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I do get what you're saying. But you'll could never satisfy such a person. There's lots of people taking advantages of glitches, and then calling the game unbalanced. You can't live your life after those whiny asses.

My worry is more practical. The 2x2 size doesn't suit the indoor space very well. I'm assuming that the plot designer (the mod creator) will utilize the full 2x2 area and thus fill it with tables and stuff. If you put a crowded 2x2 inside a building you might very well end up with a table or shelf blocking the stairs or a door.
A Red Rocket should be able to house 2-3 people. Try putting three 2x2's in there.

NikVilKok said:

I do get what you're saying. But you'll could never satisfy such a person. There's lots of people taking advantages of glitches, and then calling the game unbalanced. You can't live your life after those whiny asses.

My worry is more practical. The 2x2 size doesn't suit the indoor space very well. I'm assuming that the plot designer (the mod creator) will utilize the full 2x2 area and thus fill it with tables and stuff. If you put a crowded 2x2 inside a building you might very well end up with a table or shelf blocking the stairs or a door.
A Red Rocket should be able to house 2-3 people. Try putting three 2x2's in there.

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Which is why I went with residential and martial having 1x1 options.. I do agree with you to an extent but short of people doing SS mods designed to suit specific settlements there are going to have to be compromises.

I think a category for vault themed plots should come with the walls, floor, and ceiling already shelled around them. The prefabs should offer various shapes and sizes as well. Residentials could probably span from 1x1x1 to 1x2x4 (h,l,w, preferably with option to swap l and w) vault standard gridspaces, allowing for a partition in the 6 gridspace and up rooms.

This way you have the door in a predictable location at all times, all rooms conform to the desired form factor regardless of internal configuration, and nobody has to die.

Edit: Then again, I've seen even small plots efficiently use their space to make a nice lived in plot out of even a small area, so maybe 2x2's are really the largest necessary. I just imagined the 2x4 rooms split in half from Vault 101 when thinking about what I'd type up.

I saw a nice double tiered system earlier in the thread that nicely manages a lot of what I'd like, but I still like the concept of squatter plots that upgrade and clutter. I particularly like the wall locking concept because of things like the houses in sanctuary and the semifortress built into the power tower, but a 2x1 or 1x1 would resolve other issues too.

Thanks for the hard work, love the mod!

Name the smaller plots "Interior Plot" and the current larger ones "Advanced Interior Plot" so the code can call up the right script to build them but it won't matter when it counts the number of beds as they both get counted as just beds.

One thing to keep in mind is that we're used to bigger housing these days. Smaller housing in the wasteland makes sense because it takes less fuel to heat and lets your family huddle in the dark in comforting togetherness while the supermutants are out howling at the moon.

As for a vault, every inch is precious (not to mention, if you've got an efficient design, 1x1 is actually more than enough for a bedroom when building, bed against the back wall, side table on one side of the door, shelf or small dresser on the other side. Candle on the side table, some pictures on the walls)

For examples of efficent space usage, look to the RotC County Crossing plan, second floor. There's a full bathroom and a kitchen up there that are each in a 1x1 square and both appear reasonably functional.

tankthing said:

One thing to keep in mind is that we're used to bigger housing these days. Smaller housing in the wasteland makes sense because it takes less fuel to heat and lets your family huddle in the dark in comforting togetherness while the supermutants are out howling at the moon.

As for a vault, every inch is precious (not to mention, if you've got an efficient design, 1x1 is actually more than enough for a bedroom when building, bed against the back wall, side table on one side of the door, shelf or small dresser on the other side. Candle on the side table, some pictures on the walls)

For examples of efficent space usage, look to the RotC County Crossing plan, second floor. There's a full bathroom and a kitchen up there that are each in a 1x1 square and both appear reasonably functional.

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I remember seeing a 17th century farmhouse that had been moved to and rebuilt at the Museum of Welsh Life. The farmer, his family (6 children) and a maid (so they weren't poor by the standards of the time) lived in a house that was smaller in area than my lounge. 9 people in what would be at most 2 plots.

tankthing said:

One thing to keep in mind is that we're used to bigger housing these days. Smaller housing in the wasteland makes sense because it takes less fuel to heat and lets your family huddle in the dark in comforting togetherness while the supermutants are out howling at the moon.

As for a vault, every inch is precious (not to mention, if you've got an efficient design, 1x1 is actually more than enough for a bedroom when building, bed against the back wall, side table on one side of the door, shelf or small dresser on the other side. Candle on the side table, some pictures on the walls)

For examples of efficent space usage, look to the RotC County Crossing plan, second floor. There's a full bathroom and a kitchen up there that are each in a 1x1 square and both appear reasonably functional.

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In many ways this is true. although you're missing a few things.

Realistically, human beings weren't really meant to live underground. Humans like to roam in open spaces. So for humans to be truly happy in vaults and not go crazy from cabin fever, it would need to feel spacious, etc and have every inch of the space utilized well.

on the outside, people can have small homes because they're often outside of it going to work, socializing at the bar, etc. they get to be outside in the wide open space and then come home to huddle up with their families by the fireplace. To the people on the surface, a tiny house is just where their bed and a warm fireplace is. not much else is required, actually.

Inside a vault is a whole different story however. They're stuck there inside all day, all night. Cabin Fever is no joke, it can pretty much drive a person insane. In fact in real life if vaults existed this would be one of the reasons why vaults wouldn't last very long.
So yeah, you have to make some areas of the vault roomy, spacious and also give them plenty to do... and also there needs to be new stuff to do on a regular basis so that they don't get stuck in a rut, and run risk of suffering from Cabin fever.

That is, if you're an overseer who genuinely cares about their residents and want the vault to last a very long time. Otherwise they probably wouldn't care that their vault feels claustrophobic and stifling to the residents after a long while of living there.

All totally true, from a psychological perspective. On the other hand, when have you known Vault-Tec to care about the vault dwellers?

BTW, Vault 88 is bloody huge. From a build perspective you could probably get away with just about anything there.

I know that. that's why I'm making my vault large and roomy, just the way I like it.
I just wish there was interior plots that was suitable for the inside of a vault though.

I need to give my settlers something to do besides grow plants, you know? can't let them grow lazy playing games in my rec room all day.

Could always try your hand at making some. I don't know why somebody hasn't come out with a vault plot pack but I can't imagine it'd be too overly hard to build as interior decorations only.