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Whisper's Accidental Brillance

MrCJohn

MrCJohn

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,511
Background:

For the longest time, there has been a shift in the FO4 game in which I do installs, new games, baking a save, etc. I have only been able to enable mods on a new game which mostly are general game fixes, character creation. Doing more would either mostly not allow the Looksmenu/Compendium to properly load and not set my character, game would be infinite black loading screen, or if it got to the mirror scene, the camera and controls would be wonky and broken.

So, as I was perusing Whisper's postings here:

https://www.simsettlements.com/site...-and-plugins-an-exploration.11318/#post-85132

Whisper made a one section comment that triggered a thought in my head. So, last night, I tried it. Complete wipe and re-install of Fallout 4, deletion of all game files and complete purge of the game folder.

Went through and re-installed my 400+ mods... started a new game, started with the basics I normally do. Then I exited and enabled more. New game... worked. More enabling.. worked again.

End effect, I have what I consider a base game setup - which produces a checkpoint for me at the Vault Elevator exit - I can choose build mod styles, I can add conqueror, I can fork many a road to different game scenarios at the Vault Elevator exit.

This is about 240 plugin's enabled - which would take me a couple hours of "baking" a save.

So what was the lovely nugget @Whisper stated that triggered me?

"Special F4SE Mention
​
F4SE comes as loose files. This is because the creators want these files to be loaded last - and loose files load last.​
​
Any mod with F4SE files packed into it should be okay. *Should* - because the F4SE loose files will override the packed files.​
​
However.​
​
If the user is not running F4SE - or is (worse!) on XBox - they now have scripts that will break their game."
​
​

What I did is did initial install of F4SE as a test - installed my mods - same issue as before on new games.

Exited and Re-installed F4SE - overwriting everything.

Results - boom bang boodity bing banger! I then created a zip file of F4SE and have it as a last "mod" to install... easy peasy....

Now - this worked for ME. May not work for you, but this nugget I tripped over (and didn't know), has changed my new games and how I completely bake a save game!

Thank you!!!! @Whisper

John
 
MrCJohn said:
Background:

For the longest time, there has been a shift in the FO4 game in which I do installs, new games, baking a save, etc. I have only been able to enable mods on a new game which mostly are general game fixes, character creation. Doing more would either mostly not allow the Looksmenu/Compendium to properly load and not set my character, game would be infinite black loading screen, or if it got to the mirror scene, the camera and controls would be wonky and broken.

So, as I was perusing Whisper's postings here:

https://www.simsettlements.com/site...-and-plugins-an-exploration.11318/#post-85132

Whisper made a one section comment that triggered a thought in my head. So, last night, I tried it. Complete wipe and re-install of Fallout 4, deletion of all game files and complete purge of the game folder.

Went through and re-installed my 400+ mods... started a new game, started with the basics I normally do. Then I exited and enabled more. New game... worked. More enabling.. worked again.

End effect, I have what I consider a base game setup - which produces a checkpoint for me at the Vault Elevator exit - I can choose build mod styles, I can add conqueror, I can fork many a road to different game scenarios at the Vault Elevator exit.

This is about 240 plugin's enabled - which would take me a couple hours of "baking" a save.

So what was the lovely nugget @Whisper stated that triggered me?

"Special F4SE Mention

F4SE comes as loose files. This is because the creators want these files to be loaded last - and loose files load last.

Any mod with F4SE files packed into it should be okay. *Should* - because the F4SE loose files will override the packed files.

However.

If the user is not running F4SE - or is (worse!) on XBox - they now have scripts that will break their game."
​

What I did is did initial install of F4SE as a test - installed my mods - same issue as before on new games.

Exited and Re-installed F4SE - overwriting everything.

Results - boom bang boodity bing banger! I then created a zip file of F4SE and have it as a last "mod" to install... easy peasy....

Now - this worked for ME. May not work for you, but this nugget I tripped over (and didn't know), has changed my new games and how I completely bake a save game!

Thank you!!!! @Whisper

John
Click to expand...

John, so I am sleepy. What you are saying is "?" :

- install F4SE last improves results?
 
RayBo said:
John, so I am sleepy. What you are saying is "?" :

- install F4SE last improves results?
Click to expand...

Yes. I would say that in installing mods, specifically those dependent on F4SE, and when you think "innocently" hitting overwrite, not mentioning F4SE, something is.

And reinstalling last just re-adds all of the F4SE files.

I am hoping it takes care of several other small issues..

One thing I have noticed, that things are flowing a bit faster and smoother.

Also, I have no problems with my holotapes being added.

Right now, way it is, pre-war is more robust than I though .

John
 
To be honest I think purging folders is more than likely what made the difference.
A lot of mods are packed with loose scripts and they can build up over time.
 
Phil_T_Casual said:
To be honest I think purging folders is more than likely what made the difference.
A lot of mods are packed with loose scripts and they can build up over time.
Click to expand...

I do more complete wipes than most. What I am saying is following standard install with F4SE causes prewar to be funk . Reinstalling after all mods installed completely remedied the problem.

John
 
yeah, I install them loose. Archive being "add to archive" zip or rar, not a BA2 or something like that.

I say this just to be sure I am not doing something stupid. I basically do just what Gopher told me to do all those years ago in his video.
 
Good to know that that small snippet helped you-all. :)
—edit—
To clarify in my head. After installing all your mods, with F4SE being installed last (telling it to overwrite anything it finds) - you no longer have to bake any game-save? You can simply fire it up straight away with all mods installed?

That’s the impression I’m getting from reading.
 
Last edited:
Whisper said:
Good to know that that small snippet helped you-all. :)
—edit—
To clarify in my head. After installing all your mods, with F4SE being installed last (telling it to overwrite anything it finds) - you no longer have to bake any game-save? You can simply fire it up straight away with all mods installed?

That’s the impression I’m getting from reading.
Click to expand...

That is what I am saying. I was able to load up 240 plugins, plus my holotapes loaded in just fine after the mirror scene...

It is definitely odd or a fluke if not true!
John
 
I suppose that it’s not surprising that with a 240-mod loadorder something has slipped in which has accidentally included loose old F4SE files.

Good that it worked out for you. :)
 
Whisper said:
Good to know that that small snippet helped you-all. :)
—edit—
To clarify in my head. After installing all your mods, with F4SE being installed last (telling it to overwrite anything it finds) - you no longer have to bake any game-save? You can simply fire it up straight away with all mods installed?

That’s the impression I’m getting from reading.
Click to expand...

That is the clarity I was looking for. That restated hypothesis:

1. "After installing all your mods, with F4SE being installed last (telling it to overwrite anything it finds) - you no longer have to bake any game-save? You can simply fire it up straight away with all mods installed?"

2. Restated again as an experiment or testing statement:

Withhold Activation F4SE and all F4SE dependent mods until after:
a. the mirror
b. the activation of all non-F4SE mods

I like that hypothesis. hahahaha, but it also points to other issues and creates more questions.

Still, I'll want to try it next time I restart.

I am not so sure that eliminates "baking" just, rearranges it based on load order.

- Mods like CWSS may not spawn a halo tape until leaving and the like?

- Some castle mods need to wait for in-game prerequisites?

The solution is a form of baking. Being (layering the F4SE mods in last or later) that is a worthy concept, but in itself "baking."

This (layering the F4SE mods in last or later) makes me wonder if there are compatibility issues buried in some of those mods that need to get cleaned out?

Understand the rogue F4SE stuff that gets into some non-f4se mods. That was Gopher's whole thing "warning" in his videos.

As-Is, Thank you very much John and Whisper! A lot to think about before restarting and a lot to test once that time comes.
 
Last edited:
RayBo said:
That is the clarity I was looking for. That restated hypothesis:

1. "After installing all your mods, with F4SE being installed last (telling it to overwrite anything it finds) - you no longer have to bake any game-save? You can simply fire it up straight away with all mods installed?"

2. Restated again as an experiment or testing statement:

Withhold Activation F4SE and all F4SE dependent mods until after:
a. the mirror
b. the activation of all non-F4SE mods

I like that hypothesis. hahahaha, but it also points to other issues and creates more questions.

Still, I'll want to try it next time I restart.

I am not so sure that eliminates "baking" just, rearranges it based on load order.

- Mods like CWSS may not spawn a halo tape until leaving and the like?

- Some castle mods need to wait for in-game prerequisites?

The solution is a form of baking. Being (layering the F4SE mods in last or later) that is a worthy concept, but in itself "baking."

This (layering the F4SE mods in last or later) makes me wonder if there are compatibility issues buried in some of those mods that need to get cleaned out?

Understand the rough F4SE stuff that gets into some non-f4se mods. That was Gopher's whole thing "warning" in his videos.

As-Is, Thank you very much John and Whisper! A lot to think about before restarting and a lot to test once that time comes.
Click to expand...


I am currently testing out different loads - and to one question, yes, I got all my holotapes... playing around with it right now.... will have a more definitive answer in a few days... if it goes well, I am going to do a main load, and then add conqueror on it, making prebuilds in the loo. (like that @Whisper ? the loo... hahaha).

And yes, I think something of the F4SE dependent mods... may in fact dirty things up a bit...

John

John
 
MrCJohn said:
I am currently testing out different loads - and to one question, yes, I got all my holotapes... playing around with it right now.... will have a more definitive answer in a few days... if it goes well, I am going to do a main load, and then add conqueror on it, making prebuilds in the loo. (like that @Whisper ? the loo... hahaha).

And yes, I think something of the F4SE dependent mods... may in fact dirty things up a bit...

John

John
Click to expand...

Current loaded into new game 286 plugins - ranging from character creation, gameplay, AAF stuff, weather, visuals, clothing, combat eyeliner, and tons of Pra settlements... about 10 custom companions...

Just left the mirror - probably won't get out of the bathroom tonight.. :)

But all I see is [Settings] Smoking Added ... CWSS... Settlement Menu added, transfer settlements, sit and drink disabler, CROSS etc...

Now, will they be there in pip-boy when I get it? I will know tomorrow night..

I could go higher than 286 and did, adding in WR, patches, Regs, Elven Blossom, PbP, etc... but I want to be able to choose what build style later...

What's the long term effect? Don't know... but I started 5 new games today ... flew around the commonwealth testing, drinking some beers at settlements, etc ... just looks promising ATM.

John
 
The ones which add before the cryopod exit will be lost. Still, a very interesting experiment! :)
 
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