Question Which is the correct Liberator take-an-Outpost action?

[spacefiddle]

UPDATE: TL;DR: there is currently no safe way to take an Outpost as a Liberator. (Vassal works fine if you follow current recommendations). You either end up with murdered civilians and hostile companions; or perma-slaves that never do anything.

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When starting an assault, you can choose "Vassal," "Outpost," or "Outpost and take captives."

Being a Liberator, I of course chose simply Outpost, since the Minutemen aren't there to enslave the current residents.

However, getting close to the target, the quest popup tells me to "WIPE OUT" the target. I have a bad feeling that this is just a case of leftover Conqueror text not changed/changeable for a Liberator pack....

Since I've been seeing bugs either way, with hostile Civilians, I cannot tell on my own just from running an assault. Which is the correct option? And if it's "take captives," will it ever in the future be able to detect that a Liberator pack is being used, and say something clearer like "and rescue the captives" or "and liberate the population" or "don't murder everyone you fool?"

 

[NDCowdy]

With Liberators, to create an outpost I use the build a wardesk and claim it for faction option. Like you say, the outpost assault option would seem to be currently a conqueror left over and you end up with a load of civilians that you probably didn't want. With Liberators I only use the assaults to free new vassals.

 

[spacefiddle]

With Liberators, to create an outpost I use the build a wardesk and claim it for faction option.

So that would require gaining the workshop via Vanilla means first, then.... which isn't an option if it's Pre-Conquered. And if it's Pre-Built, even if it isn't already held by another faction and hostile, then you'll have a bunch of civilians regardless.

I've been trying to put together a coherent guide / checklist / setup recommendation for Liberator play, but so far, it's been difficult. As things stand now, Liberator faction packs aren't working well with many of the advanced Conqueror systems. Civilians, Pre-Conq, and now even pre-built cities lead to a lot of extra problems. Hopefully some of them can be worked out in 5.0 but I dunno what the plans or priorities are.

 

[spacefiddle]

So, right now, I'm not sure it's possible to take an Outpost via assault as a Liberator.

"Take Outpost" leads me to killing everyone.
"Outpost and Take Captives" leads to every civilian in the place being stuck forever in the tied-up pose on the ground. 5 in-game days and 8 real-world hours later, this has not cleared. All civvies are tied up, and the Conq HUD shows "8 captives" in the lower left bar for this settlement.

Was there meant to be a third or Liberator-only option?

 

[Unknown Zombie]

I was able to take an outpost as a Liberator today.

I used "Take Outpost" and when I assaulted the base the civilians were hostile, but they didn't attack. If I ignored them completely, my Minutemen did also (if I attacked the civilians, however, the Minutemen would purge the entire base).

Once I killed the last of the actual Children of Atom, and ignored their "Atom's Convert" civilians, then the assault completed successfully, and then I was given control of the settlement and could control the civilians.

I'm not sure it's really a "satisfactory result" though; now I've got followers of atom tending my crops, and running my store, and hogging beds that could be used for more soldiers... all while constantly reminding me to bathe in "Atom's Glow."

It's weird and doesn't really feel like a believable or desirable outcome -- even though total annihilation is an even less believable outcome (for the Minutemen).

 

[spacefiddle]

If I ignored them completely, my Minutemen did also

My minutemen blasted the first Civvie they saw in the face, and Preston immediately Hated That and went hostile to ME.

However it's possible it was a stray shot. The Oberland plan I'm using is not one i'd use again, it's very cluttered and all the NPCs were in small clumps hung up on garbage and trash.

 

[fessmods]

My minutemen blasted the first Civvie they saw in the face, and Preston immediately Hated That and went hostile to ME.

However it's possible it was a stray shot. The Oberland plan I'm using is not one i'd use again, it's very cluttered and all the NPCs were in small clumps hung up on garbage and trash.

Here’s my problem in Liberator. I try to forage (scavv) for scrap. That takes me to or by settlements. Pre-built ones controlled by gunners/raiders are attractive nuisances early in game. Sometimes, I can’t resist and attack... not via war desk declaration but just a spontaneous probe of the enemy defense. Now, let’s say that triggers a full on battle and I win. What should happen to that settlement? My experience (eg Taffington w 4.2.4) is the following:
(1) gunners seem to abandon settlement (no reinforcements as one might expect... probably beyond SS-C code)
(2) gunner decorations persist (can’t switch to alt faction; eg the one I’m currently acting on behalf of)
(3) settlement consists of nearly all civilians with a couple settlers
(4a) settlement workshop functions persist (eg can send settler to dif locale)
(4b) settlers can be traded with (here’s some proper Regulators gear for you)

if I convert to vassal, 4a and 4b disappear. vassal settlers dialog gets cut to bare minimum. Liberators’ settlers are free. So, those at a vassal should have at least as many options (eg trade). if I keep it a vanilla settlement I can’t seem to change its faction decorations. So, I have a gunners Taffington and a minutemen Abernathy (added martial plot and defaulted to MM) even though all are Regulators.

btw, playing militarized MM in parallel SS-C playthru. love it all; just wish there were an intermediary between vanilla MM and properly kitted (militarized) MM. Preston dressed as retro bum... and the 1st recruit walks in with a glorious private uniform and backpack.

 

[spacefiddle]

Preston dressed as retro bum

To each their own; I find the MilMin stuff to be very detailed and well done but rather jarring compared to the rest of the FO4 world. I use WATM personally; retro hats and modern combat armor, and i like the overall look of the uniforms they use.

You can fix Preston to your tastes easily enough, tho. Take a MilMin uniform from a casualty (or can you craft them in that mod?), take Preston as a companion, give it to him, have him equip it. He will keep it on, won't revert to his old coat even if you leave it on him.

As for the mechanics - faction skinning is somewhat broken, in every test I run it spins endlessly when it tries to automate switching over from old facton -> new faction after an assault. I turned it off, and just set the flag manually at a desk now. Yes, you would then have to manually flip any plots to choose skins you want. Somewhat tedious, but on the plus side, not broken =8)

Vanilla settlement mechanics confuse issues greatly. If you feel like starting trouble, just don't claim the settlement. Avoid settlements that autoclaim when cleared, like Daffyduck Boathouse. And remember you can always run an "assault" on any Vanilla settlement - just think of it as Start Your Own Radiant. Leave auto-skinning off, and it will process to a Vassal properly.
Another settlement needs my help!

Edit: you might also want to use something like Elianora's excellent Preston revamp, found in this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6630 which also gives him a more modern outfit and dumps the coat. Also one helluva scar that lets you know he's seen some shit.

 

[fessmods]

To each their own; I find the MilMin stuff to be very detailed and well done but rather jarring compared to the rest of the FO4 world. I use WATM personally; retro hats and modern combat armor, and i like the overall look of the uniforms they use.

You can fix Preston to your tastes easily enough, tho. Take a MilMin uniform from a casualty (or can you craft them in that mod?), take Preston as a companion, give it to him, have him equip it. He will keep it on, won't revert to his old coat even if you leave it on

You’re missing the point being made. It’s not about the vanilla assets (my whole faction pack is centered around the use of vanilla assets). And, it’s not about Preston’s uniform per se (bum comment was tongue in cheek.) it’s that there’s no staging, evolution, development or progression from the basic outfits worn and torn from prolonged use (vanilla assets) to the brand new, clean, highly stylized outfits. Just wish there were a transition from one to the other.

it’s immersion breaking to go from a resource depleted group literally on its last 10 legs to one making highly stylized uniforms for new recruits without an intermediate step/progression

 

[fessmods]

switching over from old facton -> new faction after an assault. I turned it off, and just set the flag manually at a desk now

Not so simple. In my experience, selecting faction decorations at pre-built settlements occupied by enemy faction (gunners at Taffington) has been non-responsive. And, flags aren’t skins or foundations so clicking on the Customize Plot option to change martial plot flags doesn’t help.

 

[fessmods]

Vanilla settlement mechanics confuse issues greatly

This is natural. SS-C is a dif mechanic. That said, there are ways to smooth out the issues. Some of it is as ‘easy’ as improving the UI. Things like adding a link in City Plan list that outlines expected behavior (brief FAQs) of cities (non-outpost, non-vassal) in SS-C would go along way.

I try to treat end users the same; for instance, doesn’t matter a site coordinator in a clinical trial using an electronic case report form or a Regulators mod user. Give them the info about your product so they can do their ‘job’ properly

 

[spacefiddle]

skins or foundations so clicking on the Customize Plot

I see options for both foundations and skins in the Customize Plot menu - like I said, tedious to change it all manually, but it works until things are fixed.

As for the other stuff - well, honestly, none of this was designed to allow for a manual attack without an Assault vs. a pre-conquered settlement, so there might be ways to work around some of the issues, but it IS breaking the system as it was designed.

 

[spacefiddle]

highly stylized uniforms for new recruits without an intermediate step/progression

Ah, ok. Gotcha.

You may want to talk to TheFirstEnD and/or take a look at We Are The Minutemen, for some ways to work on that. In his mod, the Minutemen spawn random patrols around the 'wealth, as well as show up at your settlements, etc.

As you level, the MM who show up are better and better armed and armored - exactly the kind of progression you're looking for, I think. So, and I'm shooting in the dark here, perhaps the recruitment system could use a similar method to base the recruits on the player's level (for instance, just as a simple way to grab overall game progress). So for example, Player is level 1-10? Then "Minuteman Private" uses form A, rags and unimproved laser muskets. Player is level 11-20, Private uses Form B, the basic MM outfits and a better weapon, etc.

I don't know if Conq could support that as it is, or if you could hook/hack into it to accomplish this, or if I'm talking out my ass at 1 AM.

 

[fessmods]

I see options for both foundations and skins in the Customize Plot menu - like I said, tedious to change it all manually, but it works until things are fixed.

As for the other stuff - well, honestly, none of this was designed to allow for a manual attack without an Assault vs. a pre-conquered settlement, so there might be ways to work around some of the issues, but it IS breaking the system as it was designed.

again, not so simple. Abernathy was ‘empty’. Clicking on Faction Decorations > Spawn Decorations > select Regulators didn’t change the flags

 

[fessmods]

Ah, ok. Gotcha.

You may want to talk to TheFirstEnD and/or take a look at We Are The Minutemen, for some ways to work on that. In his mod, the Minutemen spawn random patrols around the 'wealth, as well as show up at your settlements, etc...
I don't know if Conq could support that as it is, or if you could hook/hack into it to accomplish this, or if I'm talking out my ass at 1 AM.

It would blunt the experience for users who like/love militarized MM as is, but I’d do some mashups. Heavier on vanilla stuff at lower ranks and less to non-existent at higher ranks. Your shot in the dark is pretty much what I’ve done with Regulators. Probably also create the equivalent of my Regulators armor and outfit ‘chem’ work bench. But that’s just me. I have no permission to do any of this with the MM. And, as it’s late for you, I’m late in getting out revised content for the Regulators faction pack

 

[spacefiddle]

It would blunt the experience for users who like/love militarized MM as is, but I’d do some mashups. Heavier on vanilla stuff at lower ranks and less to non-existent at higher ranks. Your shot in the dark is pretty much what I’ve done with Regulators. Probably also create the equivalent of my Regulators armor and outfit ‘chem’ work bench. But that’s just me. I have no permission to do any of this with the MM. And, as it’s late for you, I’m late in getting out revised content for the Regulators faction pack

No no, i meant - look at how he advanced the Minutemen, in his mod, according to player level. Use a similar mechanism to achieve the gradual upgrade you were talking about. i don't mean take the content .

 

[fessmods]

No no, i meant - look at how he advanced the Minutemen, in his mod, according to player level. Use a similar mechanism to achieve the gradual upgrade you were talking about. i don't mean take the content .

I want to progress the Regulators to point of having faction specific plots. Then, I want to make a grim Conqueror faction. After that, it’d be worth trying to tackling the MM. Buffed Minutemen Militia is a solid effort. So, I’d have to add content to make it worthwhile.

 

[spacefiddle]

Sounds like a plan i'll have to check out the Regulators at some point.