Question Vassal Guards unassign themselves from Martial Plots when I return to Settlement

[bullyrook]

I've got two raider guards at Abernathy. They show up as guards in the Conqueror HUD and produce control for the settlement. I assign them each to a Martial Plot. Everything works fine.

But if I leave the settlement, upon my returning to the settlement they both will unassign themselves from their plot an remain unassigned.

They don't become unassigned while I'm away (these plots have upgraded while I'm away), but only after I return to the settlement. One plot was in view as I came down the hill from RR to Abernathy. I could see the flag on the plot flying. I went straight to the plot. Once I got to the plot, I waited for a bit for. Guard was still assigned. As soon as I entered workshop mode, the guard unassigned himself from the plot as I watched. Workshop mode went up, flag on plot went down. When I got around the big Abernathy shack to check on the other guard/plot, it was also now unassigned.

It's not game breaking, but it's a chore to reassign them every time I return.

These two guards were sent to Abernathy from my HQ via the change roll feature. And were sent prior to the 4.1 hotfix. I have sent a third via the same mechanic after the hotfix. Same results: counts as guard in HUD, provides control, but will unassign from post/plot whenever I return to the settlement.

I'm updated to the latest. Is there a setting/configuration that would cause and/or fix this behavior?

 

[nzane]

Having the same exact bug

 

[Phil_T_Casual]

Turn off all auto-assign option in the holo until we get this fixed once and for all.

 

[bullyrook]

Turn off all auto-assign option in the holo until we get this fixed once and for all.

Thanks, @Phil_T_Casual , I did as you suggest and turned all the main auto-assign option to off ( all the others are off as well). But, my guards still unassign from their Martial Plots after I return to the vassal.

Like I said, it isn't breaking the game and isn't effecting anything negatively, just requires some effort to reassign. I'll say some prayers and cross my eyes and wait for a future fix.

 

[nzane]

After what Phil said the martial plots no longer bug for me but Guards still dont count to the settlement population , tried on both Vassal and hangman , moving them with the new menu, the old move menu, its a pain in the ass, sometimes I have to console them in to the settlement for them to arrive otherwise they get lost in the world wandering forever (i guess, cause they never arrive) their role change, the outpost change display correctly in the menu, but when I fast travel to the settlement they're not there.

 

[bullyrook]

After what Phil said the martial plots no longer bug for me

That's good to hear. I'll play with it some more, maybe shuffle the current guards to the front lines and see if their replacements act different.

but Guards still dont count to the settlement population

I asked @kinggath about this directly

When guards are sent to or stay in a vassal after take over, are they supposed to count towards/ be included in the vassal's workshop population?

and he responded

Yep. I tried to do it without that, but it would required completely rewriting the plot code in SS to support faux-ownership, which is just not in the cards right now.

This part is very interesting to me. Vassal guards break the model of what we are used to in terms of "settler" needs.

It means you have to check your Conqueror HUD to make sure the guards are counting/showing at the settlement: number by the shield and add it to the workshop pop if you want to know how many people live in that settlement.

These guards exist in-between two systems: In workshop mode you are given the option to send them to regular settlements. With the role change feature you can only send them to outposts/vassals.

Guards don't have/need beds in the vassals (the don't use them anyway). Do they need a bed anywhere?

Guards are fed/watered via the vassal tribute mechanics and not directly from the settlement workshop they are in. You'd of course want to increase food/water production in vassals to exceed the vassal's population and meet the needs of your outposts, but the guards in vassals don't then have the double requirement of adding to the vassal's workshop needs.

Guards don't directly effect settlement happiness. (If they aren't counting to the total population, then they don't expand the denominator in the happiness calculations) But they may effect happiness in other ways thru the morale system.

If a guard dies, now, does the vassal settlement suffer a death penalty to happiness? I haven't tested to know. But I'd predict that because guards don't count into the workshop population, the workshop won't apply the death penalty. And surely the vassals themselves wouldn't be unhappy about a guard's death anyway. How exactly a guard dying effects control/morale is another story.

At least, it seems this way to me early on. It's all very exciting.

 

[nzane]

Forget what I said, they're still bugged, this game just loves to play with my feelings :P

 

[bullyrook]

Forget what I said, they're still bugged, this game just loves to play with my feelings :P

I feel ya. A good game has enough stuff to get you excited and then just enough frustration to keep you obsessed.

I want to talk more about vassal guards.

What are they for?

First and foremost they are a line of defense against attacks. But they are targets. If all guards die you fail the Defend X Attack. So the more guards you have the more chances you have to not fail.

Second, depending on your game configuration, they are the only ones who can work martial plots in a Vassal. Free defense (plot defense) comes from guards.

Third, they provide some control and they provide that control based just on being in the Vassal. An unassigned guard provides just as much control as one assigned to a Martial Plot. (But a patrol to the settlement seems to provide much more control than any guard does.)

Then you have to balance this all around morale.

If I were min/maxing, I mean philosophically, you'd want the most defense from the fewest number of guards and those guards would be able to put up enough of a fight on their own to not get wiped out and thus fail an attack for you.

Anyway, Fun times. It's not the same old dance floor.

 

[Phil_T_Casual]

Do guards reassign themselves to plots after you leave if you have auto-assign enabled?

 

[bullyrook]

Do guards reassign themselves to plots after you leave if you have auto-assign enabled?

no.

 

[cosmic-cube-keeper]

So hate posting "Me too", but yep, got the exact same issues. Guards won't remain assigned to vassal posts. Which impacts control. Which results in attacks against the vassal. So yep, gonna have to disable a bunch of the new features until this gets fixed.

 

[bullyrook]

So hate posting "Me too", but yep, got the exact same issues. Guards won't remain assigned to vassal posts. Which impacts control. Which results in attacks against the vassal. So yep, gonna have to disable a bunch of the new features until this gets fixed.

I'm not having any issues with control. Now, i was confused early if they counted/showed in the vassal Conqueror HUD as guards as soon as they arrived or when they get assigned to a guard plot. I might not have given it enough time to update, but regardless once I assigned a vassal guard to a martial plot/guard post they then always counted as a guard in the HUD even if they unassigned from the plot/post afterwards.

Actually working the posts/martial plots or not only impacts defense score of the vassal for me.

In my case all the mechanics are working, except I have to reassign the guards to plots every time I return to the settlement. Them unassigning when I return only effects the settlement defense score, not the control score.

[Edit: I just noticed that whether they are assigned or unassigned to the martial plots does make a big difference to the wages/equipment score.]

I really think this has to do with them not being counted in the workshop population. It is similar to an issue I had in a game with Codsworth. I moved him to Mechanist Lair via a leader assignment and then unassigned him as leader. He remained in the settlement but never counted in the population. I could assign him to any plot and he would work it, but if I left he would unassign when I returned. I just reassigned him [edit:every time] and tried not to visit that often.

Codsworth and his overall quirkiness may not be the best example, but the structure is the same: doesn't count towards workshop pop, unassigns from plot when not as soon as leave, but as soon as you return.

 

[kinggath]

I have another hotfix coming for Guards - them not counting towards population is intentional - the actual issue is that the game believes they are still attached to the original Outpost, which is why the HUD in the Vassal doesn't include them in the guard count.

 

[bullyrook]

the actual issue is that the game believes they are still attached to the original Outpost, which is why the HUD in the Vassal doesn't include them in the guard count.

I haven't had a problem with them showing up in the Vassal HUD as guards, provided I manually assign them to a martial plot in the vassal. (And, then?) they correctly remove themselves from the guard count in the Outpost HUD. I noticed while they are still in the Outpost after being assigned to the vassal and starting their trek to the vassal, they don't immediately remove from the guard count at the Outpost. But once I've met them at the vassal and assigned them, the outpost count has been correct.

 

[kinggath]

For folks not controlling Vassals, they won't be able to do that, so this fix will be for them.

Per the counts for population, I actually came up with a way to resolve that for Codsworth and everyone else. Will try and get it into the 4.1.1 patch as it will require a bigger overhaul to code than I can do in a hotfix.

 

[bullyrook]

For folks not controlling Vassals, they won't be able to do that, so this fix will be for them.

See you think of every one like a good host; I just think of myself like a bad guest

Per the counts for population, I actually came up with a way to resolve that for Codsworth and everyone else. Will try and get it into the 4.1.1 patch as it will require a bigger overhaul to code than I can do in a hotfix.

This party keeps getting better and better. Thanks!

 

[0oops]

For folks not controlling Vassals, they won't be able to do that, so this fix will be for them.

Per the counts for population, I actually came up with a way to resolve that for Codsworth and everyone else. Will try and get it into the 4.1.1 patch as it will require a bigger overhaul to code than I can do in a hotfix.

Will there be a "guard manager" thing in the holotape or in the war table that shows guard counts and control meters in each vassal? It will be handy and save the trips back and forth just to make sure every vassal is firmly controlled. Maybe a new plot called radio station for managing guards and patrols?

 

[kinggath]

Will there be a "guard manager" thing in the holotape or in the war table that shows guard counts and control meters in each vassal? It will be handy and save the trips back and forth just to make sure every vassal is firmly controlled. Maybe a new plot called radio station for managing guards and patrols?

Reports and QoL features regarding the new system will roll out in future patches. Definitely open to suggestions on those. Post away in the Conqueror suggestions section!

 

[nzane]

Just dropin by to say this is still a thing for me with the latest hotfix

 

[tot3sch]

I've done a bit of testing on this particular issue, and hope this helps:

(New playthrough started with Conqueror 4.1.0, updated to 4.1.0a and 4.1.0b as soon as they were available. One (interim) Outpost/HQ in a self-built Starlight, no city plan, just vanilla beds and a few SS plots, mainly the Conqueror utility plots like Mess Hall and Armory. One vassal in a pre-built L3 Abernathy, city plan used: Abernathy Farm by @Ausplat - which is great, btw!. Took control of Abernathy as a regular settlement prior to attacking it for game stability reasons on my particular system. 'Control vassal settlements' option set to 'on'.)

• After a successful attack on Abernathy and taking it over as a vassal, only one attacker was changed into a Guard, even though there were three martial plots by the time. This was prior to 4.1.0b and should be fixed by now.
• Sent two more Guards over from my HQ. Three Guards now correctly shown in Outpost HUD in the vassal. (working as intended)
• Civilians are no longer assigned to martial plots in the vassal. This seems to correlate to the 'Faction Guards in Vassals' option. (working as intended)
• Martial plots don't get get auto-assigned. Manually assigning a Guard to a martial plot does not change control value, but does change soldier needs production values. (why is that?)
• Guard assignment to martial plot gets lost as soon as I return to the vassal after leaving it, including reloading a save made inside the vassal. (probably a bug)
• Changing any auto-assignment options within Sim Settlements and Workshop Framework settings does not change this behavior. (tested one-by-one)
• Unassigned Guards don't show up as unemployed in ASAM Vision and cannot be summoned with Town Meeting Gavel. Damn hard to find these bastards in a buzzing L3 town with multistory buildings ^^ (will be fixed in the future with planned QoL features)

(Now to some new findings which haven't been mentioned before, afaik

• The former civilian owners of these martial plots are NOT shown as unemployed in ASAM vision, but ARE shown as unemployed in the ASAM Maintenance Software Holotape from PRA's addon (sudden idea: maybe the Guards are not the actual culprit here, but the former owners are? Maybe they never get correctly unassigned? Also: ASAM Vision and the holotape seem to use different methods for checking employment status?)
• To test this further, I move these civilians to another settlement. They immediately show up as unemployed in ASAM vision. I wait for them to bugger of, then manually assign Guards again to the martial plots. Sadly this assignment does not 'stick' through leaving and returning/reloading the vassal again... (and I had thought I was onto something here, for a minute...)
• Another test with a new martial plot, built after taking over the settlement as a vassal, so this plot has no previous owner, first assigned to a Guard: same result.