The Unofficial CH 3 Speculation Thread

[Antoine Soverie]

Best case is where you're not sure which route is best, I think. Like in Far Harbor.

Spoiler

I feel like the best experience and fairest ending to everyone is DiMA's trial but the best for the region is the sketchy reformation thing... Unless you don't trust synths at all then it's the trial or even wiping Acadia out. Or nuking the sub. Or both. Or if you're a CoA fan, destroying Far Harbor.

It's probably more about developed and underdeveloped paths in quests, even ones like Witcher 3. Where you do "the other thing" and it turns out really underwhelming compared to the "best" path. If Diamond City had a proper quest, the proper way to do it would probably be in some gray area with a lot of sacrifices.

 

[slink_v_0000]

I think the most we'll get is skins changing, like in the Chapter 2 trailer. I don't think gunners have any unique random "decorations", like the raiders did, other than maybe green barricades.

I was thinking maybe he might apply some "conquered" city plans to them all and wipe out everything that I put there. It would be brutal but not much more so from my point of view than being forced to play the Conqueror raider plot as a part of Chapter 3. Since he has said he won't do the latter, maybe he won't do the former. fingers crossed Although he did kill off Old Paul and made me go to a lot of effort to save Cola, who is apparently now paralyzed with fear.

 

[Antoine Soverie]

being forced to play the Conqueror raider plot as a part of Chapter 3

That's not happening. Raiders don't even have a place in this story other than early game cannon fodder. I imagine the new conqueror could allow us to side with gunners, but that would require a lot of foundation that isn't there. Like a whole copy of the mod centered around "the bad guys" (finding the comm hub, making repairs on it for Wes, attacking vault 81?...) that wouldn't be able to coexist with Jake's story. What's more likely is we get to make our faction and "conquer" from the gunners in its name or in the name of other preferred factions. That could still be considered "good" to some extent. But I guess Institute is also a possible option.

 

[slink_v_0000]

That's not happening. Raiders don't even have a place in this story other than early game cannon fodder. I imagine the new conqueror could allow us to side with gunners, but that would require a lot of foundation that isn't there. Like a whole copy of the mod centered around "the bad guys" (finding the comm hub, making repairs on it for Wes, attacking vault 81?...) that wouldn't be able to coexist with Jake's story. What's more likely is we get to make our faction and "conquer" from the gunners in its name or in the name of other preferred factions. That could still be considered "good" to some extent. But I guess Institute is also a possible option.

Well, I did say Kinggath had said he wasn't going to do that.

 

[Superweevil]

People leaving the team, voice actor availability, all that kind of thing... makes it very tough to pick a project like that back up after that long dormant.
Trust me, you're far from the only one that wants to see that gang again. I mean, can you even imagine the Shenanigans and/or Interpersonal Drama that'd ensue from Jammer's Crew joining the HQ staff?

It's a fun idea to mull over, bringing Jammer's crew into the HQ, but there are a plethora of reasons why that will probably never happen. As to Conqueror's plot never being completed, believe me, it's a sore spot for me as well as KG. Real life happened and I found myself suddenly without the time required to finish it. That being said, never say never. Just for total clarity here though... this is not any kind of coy hint about CH3 (Seriously. I am not involved at all in CH3).

 

[GuardianMF]

And hell, who doesn't want to go see THE TOILET KING again?

That was from Conqueror? I thought it was part of Tales from the Commonwealth at the time, oops

 

[yaugie]

That was from Conqueror? I thought it was part of Tales from the Commonwealth at the time, oops

Nah, definitely Conqueror. You go back and meet them again later in the questline, with Jam-jams, to (basically) try to negotiate for a stronger alliance. (trying not to spoil details about the later parts of the plot there)
I understand the realities of the situation, it's just been one of my "dream features" since SS2 came out, at least hearing about those people again. They've got to be out there somewhere right?

 

[slink_v_0000]

Nah, definitely Conqueror. You go back and meet them again later in the questline, with Jam-jams, to (basically) try to negotiate for a stronger alliance. (trying not to spoil details about the later parts of the plot there)
I understand the realities of the situation, it's just been one of my "dream features" since SS2 came out, at least hearing about those people again. They've got to be out there somewhere right?

Not in my Fallout 4 universe. :D

 

[Superweevil]

I understand the realities of the situation, it's just been one of my "dream features" since SS2 came out, at least hearing about those people again. They've got to be out there somewhere right?

People tend to love them or hate them. (see above). I wish more people would have at least given them a try. I deliberately wrote them to be less like the Nukaworld Raiders with no redeeming qualities, and more as just flawed human beings hardened by the world around them... with some comedy thrown in. Years ago when I played Wow, the Horde were always infinitely more appealing because they were much more of a rag tag bunch. In a story, following the strictly "good" guys all the time gets boring. Alas, that's somewhat of an unpopular opinion. So it goes.

 

[Captain LaserBeam]

People tend to love them or hate them. (see above). I wish more people would have at least given them a try. I deliberately wrote them to be less like the Nukaworld Raiders with no redeeming qualities, and more as just flawed human beings hardened by the world around them... with some comedy thrown in. Years ago when I played Wow, the Horde were always infinitely more appealing because they were much more of a rag tag bunch. In a story, following the strictly "good" guys all the time gets boring. Alas, that's somewhat of an unpopular opinion. So it goes.

FWIW I thought they were very well written and definitely the most interesting group of raiders in the Fallout series. The characters were all very three dimensional and struck me more as outlaws and misfits forced into tricky circumstances than complete sociopaths. Definitely more dynamic and interesting than certain other "evil" playthrough mechanisms modded into FO4 (cough Depravity cough).

The queasy part for me with Conqueror was always the slavery piece and how it was essentially unworkable without that. I don't know if that was your original intent (there seemed to be some suggestion that it was a "choice" for the player) but the Conqueror mechanics were so punishing that there was no viable way to do anything without practicing outright slavery. I guess that always has been a constant in the Fallout series though. I always have a hard time doing that in any evil playthrough of any of these games.

 

[Antoine Soverie]

Definitely more dynamic and interesting than certain other "evil" playthrough mechanisms modded into FO4 (cough Depravity cough).

Dunno, I got my hands on Depravity and having a blast so far. It even managed to make Kelogg sympathetic somehow (one thing the vanilla main quest couldn't). After running with Heather for hundreds of hours, I thought that would be impossible (sorry, Heather). Might still put a bullet in him later. It's a shame Conqueror is not compatible with SS2, I'd love running both of them.

 

[Superweevil]

FWIW I thought they were very well written and definitely the most interesting group of raiders in the Fallout series. The characters were all very three dimensional and struck me more as outlaws and misfits forced into tricky circumstances than complete sociopaths. Definitely more dynamic and interesting than certain other "evil" playthrough mechanisms modded into FO4 (cough Depravity cough).

The queasy part for me with Conqueror was always the slavery piece and how it was essentially unworkable without that. I don't know if that was your original intent (there seemed to be some suggestion that it was a "choice" for the player) but the Conqueror mechanics were so punishing that there was no viable way to do anything without practicing outright slavery. I guess that always has been a constant in the Fallout series though. I always have a hard time doing that in any evil playthrough of any of these games.

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment. Yes, I agree with you about the slavery thing being uncomfortable. Maybe at some point we'll publish a more in-depth history of its development, but in its infancy it was intended only to be a reskinning of Shank's mechanics, allowing for Nukaworld-like gameplay without needing the DLC (the code was baked into the original game already). Early on, I was constantly pitching ideas to KG to give it a little more "meat," as even in the beginning he did agree that we needed some quests and "plot" (the plot of the initial release was pretty frail, admittedly... its only purpose was to onload the nuka mechanics. Jammer at that point WAS pretty one-dimensional. He was just a Shank shell). KG had what would become the guts of SS2 on his plate already, but this was an intruiging tangent he was pursuing short-term (at the time). The first two patches were just adding in nuka mechanics (so we needed more characters). We didn't want any character created after Jammer to be just a dummy spitting out mechanics instructions though, so I put a lot of effort into Ophelia and her (mostly still unknown to the public) background. That sort of kick-started interest in making a legitimate Raider plot, and things kind of snowballed from there. We were developing on the fly, so every patch created an instant creative feedback loop for us, allowing us to examine the finished product, listen to the players and incorporate that and evolve as we went (Kinggath actually references this in one of his patreon videos.. the fact he had two teams, the live team, and the project--SS2--team). It was Glenn's VA work on Jammer that inspired us to go back and flesh him out more after the initial release. He deserved more than he was initially given.

But yeah getting back to the point, the plot, characters, et all of Conqueror had to sort of carry the baggage of Nukaworld with it for better or worse (I'd like to think that we did well with what we were given).

 

[Captain LaserBeam]

Dunno, I got my hands on Depravity and having a blast so far. It even managed to make Kelogg sympathetic somehow (one thing the vanilla main quest couldn't). After running with Heather for hundreds of hours, I thought that would be impossible (sorry, Heather). Might still put a bullet in him later. It's a shame Conqueror is not compatible with SS2, I'd love running both of them.

YMMV I guess. I couldn't really get past the flat pop culture references and bad jokes like having a quest where

Spoiler: If You Even Care

Harley Quinn makes you murder Aunt May and Uncle Ben, who happen to be defenseless and suffering from dementia.

were both simultaneously unsettling and cringe. It's interesting you say that about Kellogg - I actually thing vanilla Kellogg is more sympathetic than Depravity's version because I felt like vanilla Kellogg makes a lot of internal sense and Depravity Kellogg felt like his character was all over the place and inconsistent. But in the interest of not letting this become a Thuggyverse discussion forum (shudder) I'll leave it there.

 

[WetRats]

No one cares about the railroad faction and their leader. though I could use Pam and Gloria .. Though I would shoot Desdemona or give her as present to the institute in trade for some coursers :D

I do. I care.

 

[WetRats]

FWIW I thought they were very well written and definitely the most interesting group of raiders in the Fallout series. The characters were all very three dimensional and struck me more as outlaws and misfits forced into tricky circumstances than complete sociopaths. Definitely more dynamic and interesting than certain other "evil" playthrough mechanisms modded into FO4 (cough Depravity cough).

The queasy part for me with Conqueror was always the slavery piece and how it was essentially unworkable without that. I don't know if that was your original intent (there seemed to be some suggestion that it was a "choice" for the player) but the Conqueror mechanics were so punishing that there was no viable way to do anything without practicing outright slavery. I guess that always has been a constant in the Fallout series though. I always have a hard time doing that in any evil playthrough of any of these games.

Yes. All of this! Practicing slavery is an insta-nope for me.

 

[Captain LaserBeam]

I do. I care.

I agree with @WetRats. I'll say nobody cares about the Brotherhood. They are the one faction I go out of my way to eliminate in every single one of my playthroughs, after I infiltrate them of course. I make sure I say stop to say hi to Captain Kells while I'm on the Prydwen wiring it up with explosives.

 

[Synystyr1]

I'll acknowledge, I'm one of those who did not make much use of Conqueror because of the raider story (just as I've never played through NW as a raider). I'm the idealist who happily works with Preston as General of the Minutemen, loves working with the Railroad, and wants to redeem both the Brotherhood and the Institute, not destroy either of them. I've yet to find the right combination of mods to get things to turn out just how I want them.

I'm sure that idealism is part of why I enjoy the SS2 story so much, and colors my hopes and speculation for how Ch. 3 will wrap it up. I'm really hoping to see all of the references to space/the moon in the Magnusson storyline pay off well (I always felt the teases in vanilla FO4 regarding the space program were wasted). Even if they aren't able to include everything I hope for in Ch. 3, I have every confidence that I will enjoy the story, and am looking forward to the expanded replayability that Kinggath has mentioned. I also REALLY hope to see more content from add-on packs authors, both familiar and new; even if I do eventually get around to making plots (and other modding) myself, I truly enjoy seeing what the add-on authors add to my game. I use nearly all of the add-on packs available in every playthrough, and as a result I have a wonderfully diverse "empire" of settlements.

All of that said, if Kinggath does get his dream of finishing the Conqueror story in SS2 realized, I will absolutely play that through to see that ending as well. In the bit that I did play in SS1, I did find some of the characters engaging and interesting, it just wasn't my preferred way of playing FO4.

 

[fathamburger]

Dunno, I got my hands on Depravity and having a blast so far. It even managed to make Kelogg sympathetic somehow (one thing the vanilla main quest couldn't). After running with Heather for hundreds of hours, I thought that would be impossible (sorry, Heather). Might still put a bullet in him later. It's a shame Conqueror is not compatible with SS2, I'd love running both of them.

well the vote of confidence from you is probably why the chances of me setting some time aside to do Depravity as well just went up. It's currently at the very bottom of my mod list to try. Its more a lack of time than anything else especially with what I'm going to be committing IRL over the next few years possibly.

You guys and KG have all gotten me even more interested in Conqueror, even if it means regressing to SS1 to do it. Also saving it for the end in case it will get an SS2 treatment someday. Maybe I'll put Depravity in front of it

 

[WetRats]

I'll acknowledge, I'm one of those who did not make much use of Conqueror because of the raider story (just as I've never played through NW as a raider). I'm the idealist who happily works with Preston as General of the Minutemen, loves working with the Railroad, and wants to redeem both the Brotherhood and the Institute, not destroy either of them. I've yet to find the right combination of mods to get things to turn out just how I want them.

I gave up trying and wrote a story to do the things the game wouldn't allow. (Links in my sig, if you're interested.)

 

[Antoine Soverie]

I couldn't really get past the flat pop culture references and bad jokes like having a quest where

I mean yeah, stuff like that when it happens is a bit "in your face". Or a lot. Outcasts and Remnants first quest got me to do all kind of weird crap that was completely unrelated to outcasts or remnants. Not saying some of it wasn't fun but it's not for everyone clearly. I like Depravity way more. (And I'm not a slavery supporter) And the kinky stuff, TftC does it right with the brothel and its quests, SS2 does it right (on the rare 1 occasion that it does it), here it's... a lot. But we'll leave it at that.

But in the interest of not letting this become a Thuggyverse discussion forum (shudder) I'll leave it there.

Agree.

well the vote of confidence from you is probably why the chances of me setting some time aside to do Depravity as well just went up.

I'd say it's at least worth trying. Gonna take a few dozens of hours to play everything and make an educated opinion on all of it but lore-friendliness and being NSFW or not can vary a hell lot between quests and places. Maybe I'm just tired of being a good guy in this game and do the same thing over and over.