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The Survival Experience

macattack

New Member
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8
I decided to give this mod a shot, and while I was at it play on survival because I find the game much more entertaining. After having played about 80 hours and just about to finish chapter 2 I though I'd give some comments regarding how well aspects of this mod work in survival. I am playing on my steamdeck, the performance is fairly stable, just installing the mod is an absolute nightmare and involves copying a lot of files too and fro.

Firstly why play survival? I much prefer playing fallout 4 on survival mode and building a network of bases which I can use to rest and refit makes a lot of sense without the ability to teleport to your destination instantly. Having enemies and engagements be less about who can fire more bullets within 30 seconds, and be more about planning the attack, having stakes if it goes wrong, and maybe retreating makes it all much more entertaining. The idea of a mod with an independent story about running over the Commonwealth and making it a better place fits survival mode a lot better in my opinion than the normal game.

In general I really enjoyed the mod up to this stage, the fast travel through caravans is nice, but not something I've had to use heavily. I levelled to 40 mostly on mod and side quests however there are some issues which really stick out like a sore thumb.

The first is cut scenes. In a world where most enemies can one shot me, placing my character in the middle of an open area, and spawning enemies which are almost guaranteed to detect me is a real dick move. In general taking control away from the player feels very jarring and draws me out of the mod.
Not unrelated to this is the issue of forced combat, or unexpected combat. The most egregious example of this the recruitment quest for a particular settler where you must engage them in single combat. Not only in there no indication that combat is about to occur, but also there is no ability to cheat it by using specific items. In survival mode there is every possibility that your character will not be in a state to fight and locking you into a combat is a real dick move. To a lesser extent there are quests which don't appear based on the dialog to have significant risk associated with them only for you to be ambushed. This makes it particularly important to have frequent saves (by sleeping), which becomes an issue with survival timers and repeating quests on timers.
So repeating quests on timers turns out to be really unfun in survival mode. Completing a quest, doing some building only to get another pop up that you need to run to another settlement across the other side of the map. Rinse and repeat. This just isn't fun, reduce the frequency by a factor of 5, and this would be a fun mechanic but right now it's not.

One other issue is the number of companions which suddenly decide they're going to run along side you. This has multiple aspects. The most simple is, a quest to place a a particular plot, however the associated NPCs stand so close to you that it is almost impossible to place the plot where you want to. This is also an issue when trying to for instance disarm a mine. I might have max sneak and not be able to set the mines off, but the NPCs will run right over them just as I am trying to defuse it. Cue death or crippled limbs and a massive inconvenience on survival. This is also an issue with the base game (think the quest Big Guns), however the number of these instances are minimal and can be death with. In these cases the NPCs do not follow me to the literal ends of the earth. At one stage I had several quests active at the same time and was running around with 3 NPCs.
Enemies will also detect the NPC and engage it, which often leads to you being then in danger or getting blown up by nukes etc.

This gets even worse when a quest bugs out and you end up with an NPC mated to your character for what appears to be the rest of the playthrough. Because of it being survival mode there is also a very good chance that by the time I have discovered a quest is bugged, I might as well just restart the game from level 1 than reload every bugged quest.

Finally there is the issue with general bugs. I've had several bugs which were not game breaking, and would be trivial in a non survival game, which are quite annoying in a survival game. NPCs not standing at the quest marker, or not responding to interactions. All the bugs I have experienced are documented by others here on the forums. This has recently escalated to very frequent crashes near settlements. This is the most frustrating as each crash can typically result in the loss of about an hour of playtime, but it's got so bad that I can barely move around the map without the game completely crashing. It's a real shame because I was enjoying the mod up to this point.

Were it not for the crashing issue, I would rate this mod highly and recommend playing on survival despite the the issues mentioned above. The escalating crashes however have got so pervasive that I simply cannot in good faith recommend it.
 
Is SS2 your only mod? Because it's hard to pinpoint accurately it being responsible for your crashes. Though I don't doubt that certain computer/software/driver setups could be constantly crashing with SS2. Your Steamdeck is probably an extreme example.
Some scenes have been reliable in crashing or bugging out like the terrain at the Gunner attack on Aiden & co.

Maybe survival is a bit tricky with SS2. But with a normal setup it can withstand even SS2+PACE+PANPC worth of script load torture.

Perhaps you should go with FROST (and panpc) when wanting to play Survival?
 
SS2 is my only mod. I've not had any other crashes significant crashes, it's also not 100% reproducible.

The first time the crashes were annoying were at Outpost Zimonja while I was just cleaning up after an attack. Since then I had one at the Starlight Drive in. It was only several hours (12-24) maybe that I then experienced a chain of crashes. It started with about 5 trying to defend Zimonja, then after that consistent crashes when approaching Starlight or Taffington. Zimonja is where I stuck Huberts People, and largely unaltered from the way the quest leaves it, but both Starlight and Taffington are quite built up so I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that it's just too much. I haven't manually changed any limits though so I would have guess all that would happen would be mad frame drops
 
I recommend you have a look at the suggested mod list: https://wiki.simsettlements2.com/customization/suggested-mods. Buffout4 and Baka ScrapHeap should be considered hard requirement as they are very likely to reduce significantly the number of crashes related to travelling to settlements (both fast travel or just walking in). Personnaly, I think the vanilla survival mod is crap and by itself will cause hard lockup just by aiming. Now I play normal mode with mods like scourge, true damage and Game Configuration Menu and believe me, there no more bullet sponge, even the player character. And if you like to die a lot from head shot, you can add Maim...
 
I'll have a look at them. Unfortunately moding on the steamdeck is still somewhat complex but eventually I will get frustrated enough to try them out. Personally I've only had a vat's aiming crash so far on my steam deck and the total crashes have been low enough for it not to bother me. At the end of the day I'm a lazy gamer and I like to avoid tinkering with too many mods.
 
So after some more playtime I figured out how to deal with the crashes. I found that even relatively small Settlements ended up causing crashes (maybe more than 10 built up ASAM plots). My solution at this stage has been to slowly approach the settlements. If I sprint at them the game crashes, if I take my time then it all loads. I assume it has something to do with a script checking if a particular asset should be loaded, and not being done by the time the game tries to render said asset. I will keep testing and see if this is a reliable fix.

On the other hand, putting the player into a conversation which appears to have one single option to avoid getting shanked by an assaultron dominator is a real dick move.
 
I'll second the Buffout4 and Baka ScrapHeap recommendations. They dramatically reduced the crashes to rare, instead of frequent. I've gotten in the habit of command line saving every time before approaching a settlement or opening a door into a zone. It's is not quite necessary anymore (still do it out of habit). Before I had small settlements I couldn't even approach and they'd crash on me. Oberland Station has historically been bad for me for example. Now, I've been building up and not crashing at all. If you are not familiar though there is an exception and that's Sanctuary, Red Rocket and Abernathy Farm which form the "triangle of death". I choose to build up one, and leave the other two small or not at all. I haven't made Chapter 3 yet, new mods tend to get me to restart but I'm running much larger settlements that I used to be able to get away with no crashes.
 
Some of the fights are going to be tough in survival IMO. I don't play it typically but there's a first one with the Gunners were I was getting ganked consistently until I backed up into a near structure and got lucky. Not through FO4 game mechanics but just because there was that many Gunners and I was under equipped for the fight. I was running a lot of powerful gun mods as well though.
 
I'll second the Buffout4 and Baka ScrapHeap recommendations. They dramatically reduced the crashes to rare, instead of frequent. I've gotten in the habit of command line saving every time before approaching a settlement or opening a door into a zone. It's is not quite necessary anymore (still do it out of habit). Before I had small settlements I couldn't even approach and they'd crash on me. Oberland Station has historically been bad for me for example. Now, I've been building up and not crashing at all. If you are not familiar though there is an exception and that's Sanctuary, Red Rocket and Abernathy Farm which form the "triangle of death". I choose to build up one, and leave the other two small or not at all. I haven't made Chapter 3 yet, new mods tend to get me to restart but I'm running much larger settlements that I used to be able to get away with no crashes.
Spoke (wrote) too soon. Coastal Cottage is crashing on me consistently with one of the City Plan Pack plans. It's a gorgeous plan but I've got about 60 seconds to try and find the City Managers desk and try and swap in the basic one before it dies. No idea where the desk is. Probably going to have to go back to an earlier save and wait to touch it until I research the ability to apply city plans remotely.

Love this game but easily the most frustrating thing is Fallout 4 stability issues.
 
I think it's an issue with something which is meant to be loaded which is not loaded in time or similar. The crashes occur pretty reliably just after the buildings render for me (I think the distance is the second shortest). I've just got into the habit of saving (sleeping) before trying to get access a Settlement, which kinda defeats the purpose I guess.
 
So sad to read this. All I want is fo4 survival and better settlement and npcs

I wouldn't get too discouraged by one opinion. I've been playing F04 only on survival and once I started to play SS2 it was a no brainer to keep playing.

In my playthroughs I encountered crashes as well but this is simply the way of modded games. One can reduce these by optimizing load order and follow the SS2 instructions like not building all settlements especially in high pop areas, not using city plans everywhere etc.
 
I wouldn't get too discouraged by one opinion. I've been playing F04 only on survival and once I started to play SS2 it was a no brainer to keep playing.

In my playthroughs I encountered crashes as well but this is simply the way of modded games. One can reduce these by optimizing load order and follow the SS2 instructions like not building all settlements especially in high pop areas, not using city plans everywhere etc.
I agree - I have always played SS2 on survival, but you don't have to have SS2 itself in hardcore mode if you don't want to. There's ways to modulate your experience. What I don't recommend, however, is to play on survival and then add extra stuff to make it even harder. This is where people often run into problems - using survival, adding true damage, etc. - SS2 is beatable on vanilla survival difficulties but if you use mods to ramp the difficulty up even further (i.e. Super Mutant Redux, Raider Overhaul, MAIM) you're going to have a rough time.
 
I agree - I have always played SS2 on survival, but you don't have to have SS2 itself in hardcore mode if you don't want to. There's ways to modulate your experience. What I don't recommend, however, is to play on survival and then add extra stuff to make it even harder. This is where people often run into problems - using survival, adding true damage, etc. - SS2 is beatable on vanilla survival difficulties but if you use mods to ramp the difficulty up even further (i.e. Super Mutant Redux, Raider Overhaul, MAIM) you're going to have a rough time.

That's exactly what I do. I use Scourge, Maim, True Damage, AI, Super Mutant Redux, Raider Gangs, Modern Firearms etc. and it indeed makes the game fairly difficult. Especially in scripted scenes where a lot of enemies attack at once and during the early game. Later when playing with a good build it becomes much less challenging. I ran with a sniper/sneak build and now it's already becoming too easy and I'm looking for ways to make it harder.
 
One posible solution could be not making enemies harder but the player weaker with mods that nerf perks. I know some mods do that but can recall any right now
 
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