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So... why would I ever want martial plots?

Q

qarp

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6
So, I'm new to this and kinda trying to figure it out as I go, but I'm trying to build my community up and things... don't seem to make much sense. I'm at Red Rocket, and there's like fifty people all standing guard while simultaneously starving to death. I can reassign those people to garden plots and set up two turrets and not lose any of my defense, but I really feel like I'm missing something important if I do that.

Yes, I do have a provisioner to the Abernathy Farm (whose security I dismantled too, but I felt like that went along with the spirit of the place), but that does not help the food situation at all. Half the time, THEY don't think they have any food, even though they have, like, eight gardeners.

Am I doing something wrong? These three guards are a waste when they can be replaced by one machine gun turret.
 
qarp said:
Am I doing something wrong? These three guards are a waste when they can be replaced by one machine gun turret.
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At level 3 those 3 guards can generate 150 in settlement defense with some of the martial plots available. Much better than a single turret. :scratchhead

Why.jpg


In other words, use a martial plot, and assign the other two to things that will feed your population, generate resources and advance your conquest of the commonwealth. :friends
 
But what good does that do? with food, I can share with other towns (I mean... in theory? It really does not actually seem to be working at all), but why would I want a town that's nothing but security?
 
qarp said:
But what good does that do? with food, I can share with other towns (I mean... in theory? It really does not actually seem to be working at all), but why would I want a town that's nothing but security?
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Just to clear up my own confusion, are you referring to a ROTC city plan in particular or your own custom built?

Defence is important during raids which is what the martial plots are for?
 
ROTC city plan.

Right now, my Red Rocket (untouched, just going by the plan) has like five security people and a leader and that's it. Zero food; everyone's starving. It looks like everyone does have a place to sleep, though. This does not seem to be a sustainable community.

It also just seems weird, because part of the whole point of this is specializing, right? Abernathy Farm can be the food people; and provisioners carry the food away and carry building scrap in (again, in theory; no one seems to be getting fed by my provisioners and none of my towns have any scrap... that's another issue though). But what's the point of a town specializing in defense?
 
qarp said:
ROTC city plan.

Right now, my Red Rocket (untouched, just going by the plan) has like five security people and a leader and that's it. Zero food; everyone's starving. It looks like everyone does have a place to sleep, though. This does not seem to be a sustainable community.

It also just seems weird, because part of the whole point of this is specializing, right? Abernathy Farm can be the food people; and provisioners carry the food away and carry building scrap in (again, in theory; no one seems to be getting fed by my provisioners and none of my towns have any scrap... that's another issue though). But what's the point of a town specializing in defense?
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I am entirely confused by what you mean. The basic city plans cater for everything unless you are doing a build where you are managing everything yourself in which case I wouldn't use City Plans. I have never seen what you describe in the city plans and I normally build Sanctuary and Red Rocket first.

Each settlement is meant to be a self contained unit. I am not entirely sure how your are interpreting the way SS and ROTC works?
 
All I know is, I set up the settlement, and leave, and Red Rocket has no food plots and a bunch of martial plots.

also, again... isn't them NOT being independent the point of the ROTC plans? Each one is like "high food producer to feed the whole area" and "security barracks." Some of them even specify "self-sufficient," implying that's not a common thing. I know I've seen in the educational videos that it's set up that way... he specifically said the settlements are meant to support one another.
 
qarp said:
All I know is, I set up the settlement, and leave, and Red Rocket has no food plots and a bunch of martial plots.

also, again... isn't them NOT being independent the point of the ROTC plans? Each one is like "high food producer to feed the whole area" and "security barracks." Some of them even specify "self-sufficient," implying that's not a common thing. I know I've seen in the educational videos that it's set up that way... he specifically said the settlements are meant to support one another.
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Not sure who he is your referring too.

If your referring to the description of the city plan, and have added additional city plans and not using the default city plans provided by ROTC (Since the default city plan has not got that description) those describe the themes used when the author built the settlement and not a gameplay mechanic.

I am not sure of a way in SS or Vanilla that allows food resources to be shared via Supply Lines.

If you can link the exact resource you are referring to I can have a look and provide better information.
 
At a guess, the ROTC one. (I just tried it out again)
The HE reference is probably KG. (Doing his video guide to ROTC)

I can totally relate to what is being said here. The ROTC city plans can be frustrating. (As can all of them actually)
You expect the food and water to be addressed first (with defence increasing as your food & water increases), before other plots are considered. However, many of the plans do not actually appear to do this. You end up having to add things manually in order to get the happiness up, in order for it to upgrade, in order to get more plots and people. Very often, this includes farm plots being built much later on.

I have seen at Red Rocket (ROTC Plan), and other plans in various locations, that food is not the priority, and it therefore the City Plan gets stuck at a lower level for an age, if not forever, because the happiness is too low. Far too often I just drop a Happy Maker in, in order to "help" things along. But this defeats the point of using City Plans in order to allow you to go off exploring whilst your city builds up.

Many times I have used the RR ROTC plan and had varying different outcomes. Sometimes I have no choice but to add stuff myself, other times it builds correctly, but food and water are "supply chained" in. (You see the Brahmin Icon next to the relevant bar on the HUD)

These plans don't use IDEK logistic stations so, no extra input "should" be required by the user. (Or should it)
 
RobotsSmell said:
At a guess, the ROTC one. (I just tried it out again)
The HE reference is probably KG. (Doing his video guide to ROTC)

I can totally relate to what is being said here. The ROTC city plans can be frustrating. (As can all of them actually)
You expect the food and water to be addressed first (with defence increasing as your food & water increases), before other plots are considered. However, many of the plans do not actually appear to do this. You end up having to add things manually in order to get the happiness up, in order for it to upgrade, in order to get more plots and people. Very often, this includes farm plots being built much later on.

I have seen at Red Rocket (ROTC Plan), and other plans in various locations, that food is not the priority, and it therefore the City Plan gets stuck at a lower level for an age, if not forever, because the happiness is too low. Far too often I just drop a Happy Maker in, in order to "help" things along. But this defeats the point of using City Plans in order to allow you to go off exploring whilst your city builds up.

Many times I have used the RR ROTC plan and had varying different outcomes. Sometimes I have no choice but to add stuff myself, other times it builds correctly, but food and water are "supply chained" in. (You see the Brahmin Icon next to the relevant bar on the HUD)

These plans don't use IDEK logistic stations so, no extra input "should" be required by the user. (Or should it)
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I am extremely surprised at this information. I have done multiple run throughs on Xbox and PC with the standard ROTC plans and have watched my settlement level all the way to 3 without any interaction from my side over a couple of in game days/weeks. I have never seen any issues with happiness etc.

I don't make use of manual playthroughs. I set everything to automatic including upgrades and let the settlement manage it's own resources. I actually use the Sanctuary City Plan to complete the quests with Sturges to build your first settlement since it's so effective.

Going to keep an eye on this thread. I am curious to see what the more knowledgeable players have to say regarding this.
 
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The very first time I used the ROTC plan at RR, it did level up on its own. But it did have food and water imported (or whatever the correct phrase is), as it was the first time I had seen the Brahmin icons on the HUD. (And had no idea what they were or why). Builds following the first time have normally included the fact I have removed a mod and caused my own issues, but still, some plans don't appear to have the food balance right at the first level. When Yagisan does his plans, he often uses IDEK logistic stations, but that is very clearly stated in the description.
Edit:
The first time I did the RR plan, I already had Abernathy farm up and running too. Not saying that's a requirement, just amending my post.
 
BinaryMisfit said:
have watched my settlement level all the way to 3 without any interaction from my side
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I assume then that you picked options during the SS configuration wizard that turned off Citizen Needs Requirement, Dynamic Needs and City Supply Costs? Those make a huge difference on how city plans play.

With citizen and dynamic needs on, I often have to tweak the settlements in some ways to get them to level up, as RobotsSmell was saying, but I believe that is expected. Sanctuary stands out as one that requires the most tweaking on my part. If too many settlers arrive before agri levels up, it can't feed itself. Separate from agri, I always have to add to defense there at lower levels to get happiness high enough for the city to level.
 
jugato said:
I assume then that you picked options during the SS configuration wizard that turned off Citizen Needs Requirement, Dynamic Needs and City Supply Costs? Those make a huge difference on how city plans play.

With citizen and dynamic needs on, I often have to tweak the settlements in some ways to get them to level up, as RobotsSmell was saying, but I believe that is expected. Sanctuary stands out as one that requires the most tweaking on my part. If too many settlers arrive before agri levels up, it can't feed itself. Separate from agri, I always have to add to defense there at lower levels to get happiness high enough for the city to level.
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I think based on this I need to bow out of this thread. This is definitely a different playing style then my own and I won't be adding value. Will continue to follow the thread with interest. :)
 
So I'm right that there is in fact zero point (outside of role playing and the sense of simulating a real set of distinct communities) to having a town "specialize" in defense? Or... well, anything but food and water? That is, food and water are the only ways communities can help one another through provisioners? When the settlers find scrap, is THAT shared?

Also just because I'm getting confused now... food and water ARE shared between towns on supply lines, right? And you see a Brahmin icon in the HUD when that's happening?
 
It was brought to my attention that I misunderstand the settlement system and I can only hang my head in shame considering how long I have been playing FO4.

Please ignore all my comments on this thread as utterly wrong.

For reference I consultant the Wiki and the following was brought to my attention regarding the base supply line system in FO4:

  • When building at a workshop or using a crafting station inside a linked settlement, one can use the junk, aid and miscellaneous items in the inventory of all linked workshops from all linked settlements (junk does not have to be salvaged first).
  • Excess food and water will be used to supply all the settlements in the supply network. This can allow certain settlements to specialize in food or water production to make up for others that may be less viable.
Click to expand...

Supply Lines
 
qarp said:
Also just because I'm getting confused now... food and water ARE shared between towns on supply lines, right? And you see a Brahmin icon in the HUD when that's happening?
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Yes. That is true.
 
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