Should I not use Rise of the Commonwealth before I beat Chapter 2?

[The Gent]

I was just reading and I noticed there were some stuff in Ch2 that I saw in RoTC...like the little kid redcruiting for the Cops and some lady and her dad the death claw hunters...when i installed RoTC they appeared at my Sancturary. I installed RoTC and scrapped my base and used a RoTC base at the 12th mission of Chapter 1. And i was getting CTD's like crazy at Santuarty to the point i had to uninstall it, and revert to a previous save before I built the new Settlement. I couldnt Fast travel or walk to there it would CTD right out of Loading or 2 min after walking to Sanctuary. So what i am trying to say is, should this be installed after the completion of Chapter 2?

 

[The Gent]

the funny thing is that my game has had over 100 mods installed for over a month and i have never had any CTDs untill I installed Sim Settlements, and i have talked to a ton of people on Facebook that say the same thing. Both Xbox and PC players

 

[abaris]

the funny thing is that my game has had over 100 mods installed for over a month and i have never had any CTDs untill I installed Sim Settlements, and i have talked to a ton of people on Facebook that say the same thing. Both Xbox and PC players

Don't underestimate the script load you're dealing with. It may be that your 100+ mods were within the range of what both your rig and the game itself were able to handle, but installing SS2 was the last straw to bring your system to it's knees.

I had a lot of trial and error till SS2 ran on my computer as intended. And even now I get the occasional CTD.

You should ask yourself one question: Which mods in my mod list, do I actually use? And get rid of the ones you don't use and have only installed because you thought, they may be pretty.

 

[The Gent]

Don't underestimate the script load you're dealing with. It may be that your 100+ mods were within the range of what both your rig and the game itself were able to handle, but installing SS2 was the last straw to bring your system to it's knees.

I had a lot of trial and error till SS2 ran on my computer as intended. And even now I get the occasional CTD.

You should ask yourself one question: Which mods in my mod list, do I actually use? And get rid of the ones you don't use and have only installed because you thought, they may be pretty.

I uninstalled about 20 mods earlier and I Am now able to spawn in Sanctuary and Red Rocket both are upgraded...I was doign some reading and found out that

Fallout 3 New Vegas Style Outfit Ground Object Physics​

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/47928

was causing people the same problem I was having...


So I got rid of that and a bunch of other mods...so far its running good...the performance drops pretty hard when Sanctuary is fully upgraded...I still havent found my bedroom with my desk in it. My house is completely boarded off now lol. And about that mod that skips the prologue...I have been installing and uninstalling mods on the same save file for the last month i didnt know you arent supposed to touch the mods once you install them...what if you need to change stuff? theere is no auto save its terrible i got a autosave mod and it sucks its nowhere as near as good as CASM for New Vegas. But, I really havent had problems with crashing untill I started with those Settlement things...Im not reallly into Settlements I got this mainly for the stories and quests. And lastly, the load order you said to start off with, that was my next approch if it continued. I think i have it tamed for now lol I have had a couple crashes since but i think they were from having God Mode enabled and a Trainer running in the background. Will enabling cheats via ~ cause your game to crash ?

 

[abaris]

I have been installing and uninstalling mods on the same save file for the last month i didnt know you arent supposed to touch the mods once you install them...what if you need to change stuff?

Well, uninstalling mods midgame may or may not cause problems. That's the price you have to pay for modding your game. It's always adviced to start over when removing mods, since even if they're gone, they're in your saves and may interfere with stuff.

That's why I said, think good and hard on which mods you can do without before starting over. Less mods is always the best decision, since they all contribute to the work load of your game. I still have 88 active plugins, but my game is almost entirely stable.

Another option is to use Fallrim Tools to clean your saves. Don't ask me, how this works, since it's been years, since I last used them. But they allow to clean save files from remnants of uninstalled mods.

Also, purely on a personal basis, I would recommend using Nexus Mod Manager community edition instead of Vortex. It's much more intuitive and offers a plugins tab, where you can sort your mods to your heart's desire.

 

[The Gent]

Well, uninstalling mods midgame may or may not cause problems. That's the price you have to pay for modding your game. It's always adviced to start over when removing mods, since even if they're gone, they're in your saves and may interfere with stuff.

That's why I said, think good and hard on which mods you can do without before starting over. Less mods is always the best decision, since they all contribute to the work load of your game. I still have 88 active plugins, but my game is almost entirely stable.

Another option is to use Fallrim Tools to clean your saves. Don't ask me, how this works, since it's been years, since I last used them. But they allow to clean save files from remnants of uninstalled mods.

Also, purely on a personal basis, I would recommend using Nexus Mod Manager community edition instead of Vortex. It's much more intuitive and offers a plugins tab, where you can sort your mods to your heart's desire.

oh so there IS a nexus mod manager! I was told it was turned into Vortex and everyone jsut calls it nexus mod manager for some reason..lol where do ii download it from ill take a look at it...is it as noob friendly as vortex? i did that earlier i got rid of about 20 mods alot of my mods are Creatures, Armors, couple guns, a few patches, a couple texture packs a lighting mod but the bulk is quest mods that i am in the middle of all of them lol that was the main reason i started modding in the first place cause i wantd more missions to play and my friend told me about quest mods and then it was off to the races from there lol

 

[The Gent]

duplicate post please disregard

 

[abaris]

oh so there IS a nexus mod manager! I was told it was turned into Vortex and everyone jsut calls it nexus mod manager for some reason..lol where do ii download it from ill take a look at it...is it as noob friendly as vortex? i did that earlier i got rid of about 20 mods alot of my mods are Creatures, Armors, couple guns, a few patches, a couple texture packs a lighting mod but the bulk is quest mods that i am in the middle of all of them lol that was the main reason i started modding in the first place cause i wantd more missions to play and my friend told me about quest mods and then it was off to the races from there lol

There is.

NMM - Community Edition

The official download page for NMM Community Edition. Nexus Mod Manager is dead, long live to NMM CE!Developed by the same person but with the help of the NMM community.Is it better than &

www.nexusmods.com

The community edition. After trying Vortex and being completely out of my league, especially when load order is concerned, I switched back to the tool I was using for the last 15 years and know inside out.

 

[earthdude]

Regarding load order:
1. As pointed out previously, make sure to read each mod's page (especially the Posts section!) for load order advice and known conflicts and follow any directions given.
2. Use FO4Edit. You cannot possibly solve every conflict using just LOOT. This tool will show you what mod is overwriting what. Plenty of videos and instructions on how to use FO4Edit. Based on the information learned here you can either change load order or create a patch.
3. I use exclusively Vortex. You can absolutely manipulate load order in Vortex:
3a. Place plugins into different plugin groups (click 'Manage Groups' in the top bar on the Plugins page to see what order the groups are in). Most plugins are in the 'default' group. You can change the group by double-clicking on a plugin (info window should pop up on the right). Click on 'Group' and place the plugin into another group. Many plugins need to be placed late in your load order. For example, I place any mods that may affect precombines into the Faction Housing Overhaul group even if they aren't actually related to a faction or housing.
3b. Use 'Manage Rules' to fine tune the load order. I have rules here that are related to instructions from mod authors or conflicts I found using FO4Edit.
3c. As an aside, Vortex uses LOOT. No need to use it in addition.

Regarding stability:
1. The unfortunate truth of modding is that the interplay between the mods you have and the machine/environment you're running it on is too complicated for any one piece of advice to provide a 100% workable solution. That said, you will never completely get rid of CTDs, but you can get rid of consistent CTDs if you work at it. The best evidence I have of this is the ongoing somewhat vociferous debate of New Vegas Stutter Remover and New Vegas Tick Fix on Windows 10. Over the last 5 years or so, I've always installed both and swapped them in and out to see which one worked best. Except for my most recent computer, NVSR resulted in the most stable game for me. Only on my current laptop does NVTF actually do a lot better (solved a crashing problem that NVSR didn't fix). So... your mileage may vary regardless of what advice or solution you follow.
2. I used to follow modding guides that were rather prescriptive (do exactly as I say or this won't work; many also have a vision that you may or may not ultimately agree with). I had no end of problems using those. I've since switched to start simple (textures, item, and companion mods), only select one script intensive mod (SS2 in this case), then add quest mods. You can try using the Thuggyfied mod list (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/41435) as a base because this modlist is geared to the lowest common denominator configuration. It is perhaps too basic in that it includes F4SE mods as an option... most are essential (primarily Buffout 4).

 

[The Gent]

Regarding load order:
1. As pointed out previously, make sure to read each mod's page (especially the Posts section!) for load order advice and known conflicts and follow any directions given.
2. Use FO4Edit. You cannot possibly solve every conflict using just LOOT. This tool will show you what mod is overwriting what. Plenty of videos and instructions on how to use FO4Edit. Based on the information learned here you can either change load order or create a patch.
3. I use exclusively Vortex. You can absolutely manipulate load order in Vortex:
3a. Place plugins into different plugin groups (click 'Manage Groups' in the top bar on the Plugins page to see what order the groups are in). Most plugins are in the 'default' group. You can change the group by double-clicking on a plugin (info window should pop up on the right). Click on 'Group' and place the plugin into another group. Many plugins need to be placed late in your load order. For example, I place any mods that may affect precombines into the Faction Housing Overhaul group even if they aren't actually related to a faction or housing.
3b. Use 'Manage Rules' to fine tune the load order. I have rules here that are related to instructions from mod authors or conflicts I found using FO4Edit.
3c. As an aside, Vortex uses LOOT. No need to use it in addition.

Regarding stability:
1. The unfortunate truth of modding is that the interplay between the mods you have and the machine/environment you're running it on is too complicated for any one piece of advice to provide a 100% workable solution. That said, you will never completely get rid of CTDs, but you can get rid of consistent CTDs if you work at it. The best evidence I have of this is the ongoing somewhat vociferous debate of New Vegas Stutter Remover and New Vegas Tick Fix on Windows 10. Over the last 5 years or so, I've always installed both and swapped them in and out to see which one worked best. Except for my most recent computer, NVSR resulted in the most stable game for me. Only on my current laptop does NVTF actually do a lot better (solved a crashing problem that NVSR didn't fix). So... your mileage may vary regardless of what advice or solution you follow.
2. I used to follow modding guides that were rather prescriptive (do exactly as I say or this won't work; many also have a vision that you may or may not ultimately agree with). I had no end of problems using those. I've since switched to start simple (textures, item, and companion mods), only select one script intensive mod (SS2 in this case), then add quest mods. You can try using the Thuggyfied mod list (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/41435) as a base because this modlist is geared to the lowest common denominator configuration. It is perhaps too basic in that it includes F4SE mods as an option... most are essential (primarily Buffout 4).

yea that NMM is too much i have no idea what to do i just broke the game messing with stuff i dont know what im doing gota reinstall everything now lol im just sticking with Vortex. thanks though.

 

[abaris]

yea that NMM is too much i have no idea what to do i just broke the game messing with stuff i dont know what im doing gota reinstall everything now lol im just sticking with Vortex. thanks though.

NMM is as simple as it gets. You got the plugins tab and you got the mods tab. In the plugins tab, you have green up and down arrows to move mods in the load order up or down.

There's really nothing more to it.

 

[msalaba]

I would not recommend using NMM. If you want that kind of power, use Mod Organizer 2 instead. NMM was great in its time, but it has issues installing esl plugins and often leaves loose files behind when mods are uninstalled. I also remember it having issues correctly installing SS1. I manually installed due to this. Also, (can't remember for sure) I don't think it can access Nexus mod pages any more, unless someone updated it. I never got profiles working correctly with NMM either.
If you want to manually adjust your load order, just use the in-game manager.

 

[abaris]

Also, (can't remember for sure) I don't think it can access Nexus mod pages any more, unless someone updated it. I never got profiles working correctly with NMM either.

Oh, it can. It's hosted on the nexus, after all, and is updated by the same team, that was responsible for the original. It's just no longer the official got to tool of the nexus.

I'm using NMM for upwards of 15 years and after trying out Vortex, I went back to using NMM without any issues.

 

[GuardianMF]

I'm using NMM for upwards of 15 years and after trying out Vortex, I went back to using NMM without any issues.

That’s exactly why NMM was kept alive. It’s a Mod Manager that people can fall back to if they prefer the old, straightforward approach to mod installation. But it was abandoned for a reason…

Like msalaba pointed out, it used to leave loose files behind occasionally, it would not always download big files correctly and it didn’t handle ESL files well when it was a new format.

Hopefully these issues have been addressed. But if my memory doesn’t fail me, you get prompts asking if you want to overwrite conflicting files. For an experienced user this shouldn’t be a problem, but for others, there’s a risk of screwing up your installation.

In every case however, there should be tutorials online. Knowing your Mod Manager and its features, including its shortcomings, is key. That includes Vortex and MO2.

 

[abaris]

That’s exactly why NMM was kept alive. It’s a Mod Manager that people can fall back to if they prefer the old, straightforward approach to mod installation. But it was abandoned for a reason…

I use NMM primarily to keep the correct load order. I do download most of my files manually, look at the file structure and extract manually. In the case of SS2 and WSFW updates, I overwrite the files in my data folder and delete the package. I delete through NMM, but manually purge the remnants afterwards.

However, there are mods, I want to keep, since they have been removed from nexus, following the rule updates there and so I just deactivated them in NMM to maybe use them at a later time.

I also keep a copy of my working data folder on an external drive.

 

[GuardianMF]

That is very meticulous of you! But most people are not going to be careful like that. It is probably why Nexus changed their approach with Vortex and made automatic sorting a mandatory feature. They figured that automatic sorting combined with a user-friendly interface would ease most people in installing mods from their site, and they were right. And now, with Collections, everything is sorted out for the user!

And then those users start installing a few mods according to their preferences, not having a basic understanding of mod installation and load order...

Anyway, I digress. My point is that NMM shouldn't be recommended to new users. They should be directed to Vortex (in most cases) or MO2.

 

[abaris]

They figured that automatic sorting combined with a user-friendly interface would ease most people in installing mods from their site, and they were right. And now, with Collections, everything is sorted out for the user!

I found Vortex to be anything but user-friendly in terms of interface. It misses all the intuitive options NMM had. And I was new to modding also at one time and found NMM, around the time of Oblivion, I guess, to present a quick learning curve.

 

[GuardianMF]

I found Vortex to be anything but user-friendly in terms of interface. It misses all the intuitive options NMM had. And I was new to modding also at one time and found NMM, around the time of Oblivion, I guess, to present a quick learning curve.

Now I didn't expect to hear that! It was the opposite to me. When I tried Vortex for the first time, I immediately wanted to forget about NMM. Vortex had the presentation and features I would expect from a modern interface. The only aspect that wasn't intuitive for me was the sorting "features" (read: workarounds). I do remember that many users were not satisfied and went back to NMM.

 

[abaris]

I do remember that many users were not satisfied and went back to NMM.

Me among them.

Probably because I didn't want to browse manuals to see how it works properly. I did enough of that when modding the mass effect series and installing textures and other mods to be set up properly.

Fact is, that I only need a mod manager to keep my load order. Most everything else, after 20 years of Bethesda experience, I tend to do manually. Downloads as well as installation.

 

[msalaba]

I do remember that many users were not satisfied and went back to NMM.

That was me! I didn't to Vortex until shortly after SS2 dropped. My data folder was a mess and I needed to re-download my mods anyway. With a nice clean SSD, I started over. I will agree that Vortex is not the most intuitive mod manager when it comes to sorting rules, but once you have it setup, it works pretty good. The fact it can install F4SE plugins is pretty cool too.

I did find out that Vortex doesn't work well with FO3. I had to revert to my trusty copy of FOMM. That was a trip down memory lane.