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Closed Settlement Plots movable without prompt window warning, then crashes.

The Typical Idiot Fan

The Typical Idiot Fan

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I've spent the better part of the last evening trying to effectively recreate the bug, and have gotten it to go three times, but never have I found out what exactly was causing it as there does not seem to be a common trigger in all three instances. The bug basically removes all functionality for Sim Settlement plots. ASAM sensor does not do any of the menu options, holotape plot refresh begins but does nothing, Immersion Breaker Breaker likewise does squat, and when I try to scrap the plot and start over, the plot base itself disappears but leaves behind everything without triggering the autoexplosion demolition effect. Weirdly, using alternative scrap methods reveals that there are cloned objects sitting on top of each other, so that when I scrap one building there is another right underneath. Once the second one is scrapped, no more clones remain. If I try instead to pick the plot up to move it, the normal pop up window asking me if I am okay destroying this plot back to level 1 (with the cancel, yes, and yes but use the same plot plan) does not appear, but I can pick the plot up and move it, and once it does Fallout 4 crashes. I can go back to previous saves before the bug happens and try to recreate it, so it isn't a definite thing. Something is triggering the effect.

I don't know exactly what is causing this, but so far it has only occurred for me at Echo Lake Lumber Mill. It was not doing this before 2.0.3, though I also downloaded All Settlements Expanded by Neeher and Immersive Settlers recently, with all SS add-on packs updated as well.
 
are you placing plots and then moving them around with placeeverywhere once placed? I found out the hard way that giving plots a nudge with it after they've built out causes weird things to happen.
 
I've seen this before, though a lot less since 2.0 as the method for tracking plot data was completely redone. Essentially, at some point scripts backed up and caused this plot to lock up on itself. Any of the plots doing this, you're going to want to scrap and you'll most likely have to manually scrap all of the stuff spawned by them using the Sim Settlements Helper mod or Place Everywhere.

If the issue keeps happening after you clean up the problem ones now, check out the wiki performance page and try out some of the Papyrus ini settings, they will give the game a lot more resources for script handling and hopefully allow your game to avoid the race conditions that are causing the plots to lock up.
 
I nudge my plots when I need to with Place Anywhere (Everywhere) ... then I just Refresh plot and things akimbo during build is right with the world.
 
I do the same thing, but I've had some weird things happen if I catch it just as it spawns something while building out. I run into this more often with new settlements where I'm laying out path infrastructure as well and happen to catch a plot that has been placed while it's spawning in stuff.

Refresh plot is my favorite ASAM button
 
tankthing said:
are you placing plots and then moving them around with placeeverywhere once placed? I found out the hard way that giving plots a nudge with it after they've built out causes weird things to happen.
Click to expand...

No, these were plots that had been at Echo Lake now for quite some time. I was doing some remodeling with the expanded build areas and that's when I noticed the problem.
 
kinggath said:
I've seen this before, though a lot less since 2.0 as the method for tracking plot data was completely redone. Essentially, at some point scripts backed up and caused this plot to lock up on itself. Any of the plots doing this, you're going to want to scrap and you'll most likely have to manually scrap all of the stuff spawned by them using the Sim Settlements Helper mod or Place Everywhere.
Click to expand...

I tried that originally but some of the items weren't scrappable even with Helper and other scrap mods, so I reloaded an old save. The unscrappable objects came from add-on buildings. Another oddity I am just now remembering is that the daily maintenance never happened either. I never got messages telling me that settlers had harvested some goods or taxes collected. I thought it was a time duration problem so I waited for 48 hours and the bug didn't happen. It seemed to happen when I was hanging out in Echo Lake for a long time and after a sleep.

If the issue keeps happening after you clean up the problem ones now, check out the wiki performance page and try out some of the Papyrus ini settings, they will give the game a lot more resources for script handling and hopefully allow your game to avoid the race conditions that are causing the plots to lock up.
Click to expand...

I noticed those and did not have any performance improving advisements put in place yet, so I'll try this and see what happens.
 
Update: it is more broken than I realized.

At this point nothing works at all with Sim Settlements. I got through scrapping everything in Sanctuary but the problem is most of my settlers still think they're assigned to things. I try to assign them away to other objects and they ignore me. A few of them unassigned when the plots were scrapped, but not all of them. Once in a while, WELL after I picked up a plot (like 10 minutes or more), I get the pop up asking me if I am sure I want to move this plot and I can choose to a'splode it then, and it does a'splode, and even though I scrapped that plot, the base plot reappears and I have to scrap it again. Nothing happens on the plot when it reappears, it just sits there and I can't use the ASAM sensor on it or anything. In addition, none of the City Management pop ups work either (such as for "happiness" or "citizen needs") and none of the tools functions to destroy or refresh plots work either. As far as scrapping goes, there was one chair that wouldn't go away, and I know SS was having issues with scrapping veggies from plant farms, and now I have a number of them hanging around, too. Some were actually scrapped but are invisible, but they show up when I mouse over them with the SS helper scrapper thingy. Worse, it appears that I can't move anybody around either. I can instruct a settler to "go" somewhere within the settlement, but I can't move them to other settlements, nor can I assign any settler or bot to provisioner duty. I'm going to try the "Bar" fix someone had in another thread and see if that at least gets people moving around, maybe it will conk a few out of their stupor as well.

I did all the Papyrus script suggestions you had, and I disabled a number of other mods to figure out what is going wrong, including all the SS add-on packs (just leaving base SS and Industrial Revolution an Helper and Settlement Menu Manager, plus a few other "safe" mods that don't conflict with anything), and now I can pop into Build Mode much quicker (before it would take about 8 seconds, now it takes 2, so one of those other settlement mods was really grinding stuff to a halt), but it did not fix any of the other issues. I am going to pop over to a different settlement to see if it is happening there as well or if Sanctuary and Echo Lake are just the "lucky" ones.

Update to Update:

So I used the demolition tool like two hours before I posted this originally and as I was making my way through my other settlements to manually scrap everything, it suddenly pops up a warning telling me it was about to blow everything up (also the Happiness tool popped up, for the Visitors Center even though I was in Sanctuary at the time). I also had several warnings pop up asking me if I wanted to move plots or leave them. Needless to say, while I was scrapping the Visitors Center, all hell broke loose in two ways, and when I turned I saw a couple of plots (I had already scrapped) show up with scaffolding as if they were constructing buildings, but as soon as I moved towards them, I crashed to desktop (and I hadn't saved in a very long time, so I have to start over all of the Far Harbor demolition projects), but I am going to try a different thing tomorrow and just move plots instead of scrapping them, then wait and see if that demolition program starts again.

So it seems that as you surmised, all the scripts are just buggered and clogged up, but I don't now what is causing it. Disabling a bunch of other mods has made things move faster with other aspects of the game, but just not Sim Settlements. I'm hoping the demolition will work tomorrow and I can uninstall SS then reinstall it and hopefully fix everything, but we'll see.
 
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Since all those pop-ups are coming up at once, your scripts are super-backed up, and you need to let them catch up. Easiest way to do this is to go to a settlement, and walk away from your computer. Just leave your character standing there, not in the pipboy or escape menu. Come back every 10 minutes and see if the pop-ups have started so you can dismiss them. Once you've dismissed everything, let it stand another 10 minutes just to be safe.

Another thing you could do: Before you do the waiting, open your save file in Fallrim Tools, expand the Active Scripts section and post a screenshot of it here. Then after you do the waiting, repeat. I can compare the two and tell you if anything is completely stuck that you can force through with Fallrim Tools.
 
I have found going to Heather's Bunker (companion mod) and smoke a cigarette (mod) for about 10 minutes, which some reason has crazy 200+ fps, the scripts fly through on upgrades and such for the settlements. I have about 6 settlements with SS now and it really is backing up. Won't be building any new settlement till the existing ones hit all level 3's .... I have not used any of the SS performance settings - which may be next. Sanctuary currently has 20 people and when I go there by foot (fast travel causes CTD or the Fallout.exe file has stopped working), I get a good 20 to 25 fps, down from 70 to 80++ outside of settlements.

Side note, I do the Bunker run before going to Boston Common. Really lags badly when you start getting notifications of improvements.

BTW - I get those popups delayed as well... mostly the delay I get is Choose Building Plan... takes awhile to pull up the choices 5 to 10 seconds... I just don't push more on the keyboard... stand still! haha.

John
 
Another thing to try if you're on PC is toggle the settler AI off for a solid few minutes and then toggle it back on. This lets the main script engine get caught up with all the pending stuff and doesn't allow the settlers to add additional work. When you toggle back on you may see a lot of stuff happening back to back very quickly due to it being caught up again, at which point I'd do another round of tai, wait 2-3 minutes, tai again and see if the flurry of catchups goes away.

This is literally how I keep my sanctuary running with 115 settlers in it.
 
tankthing said:
Another thing to try if you're on PC is toggle the settler AI off for a solid few minutes and then toggle it back on. This lets the main script engine get caught up with all the pending stuff and doesn't allow the settlers to add additional work. When you toggle back on you may see a lot of stuff happening back to back very quickly due to it being caught up again, at which point I'd do another round of tai, wait 2-3 minutes, tai again and see if the flurry of catchups goes away.

This is literally how I keep my sanctuary running with 115 settlers in it.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried that but will when home tonight.... I also saw the suggestion of building a fast travel mat away far as possible from the epicenter.... haha.
 
kinggath said:
Another thing you could do: Before you do the waiting, open your save file in Fallrim Tools, expand the Active Scripts section and post a screenshot of it here. Then after you do the waiting, repeat. I can compare the two and tell you if anything is completely stuck that you can force through with Fallrim Tools.
Click to expand...

3058 active scripts. I am not sure I can get a screenshot of all of them. A lot of them say "terminated" on them, too. I'm looking at a bunch of previous saves an at most they have 8 or 9 active scripts. I'm trying to figure out at what point things went crazy. Based on the number of active scripts seen on each save file it looks like it starts going nuts when I started the Nuka World quests. Before that, the most it got was 19 active scripts, then after that it starts at 62, then 84, then 100, and just keeps going up until it is now over 3000. The date I originally made the first post here is when the scripts started going ape. I did not install any new mods though I may have updated a few since then.
 
Oh wow - when it gets that high, I'd do 2 things.

1. Try and jot down all of the different scripts involved. There will be tons of duplicates, especially from Sim Settlements. You're looking for a settlement mod that only has a few entries, more than likely, that one got stuck and is holding up the whole chain of events.
2. Once you've got a list to reference for later, right-click on ActiveScripts and terminate them all. Your save will instantly run much better, but you've got to find the mod that's causing these back-ups. So you're going to need to keep re-checking your save every play session to see if you can pinpoint the culprit.
 
After letting things go for a while, I dropped from over 3k active scripts to just about 1750, but after waiting a while after that, it didn't go down any more. Looking at the remaining active scripts, the pattern is simple. A vast majority of them are either "simsettlement:simplot(RefID)", "SimSettlements:ASAMSensor(RefID)", "rescript (RefID)", "workshopscript (RefID)", "autobuilder:autobuildparentscript (Ref ID)", "kghelpers:optionsmanagerscript(Ref ID)", or "TERMINATED (004a041d) 0 frames (zero attached 0000000000000000"

There are some others, but I'd say 95% or more are one of these things.
 
Usually what happens, is workshopscript and workshopparentscript get called by some other script - they get stuck, and then all further calls to those scripts, which includes the sim settlements scripts can never complete.

The non-sim settlements, non-workshop scripts are what I'd be looking at. We've got a large enough base of Sim Settlements users (including a strong team of beta testers that play the mod daily), that I'm pretty confident it's a victim, rather than the cause of this.

Try terminating all the active scripts (you should be able to terminate them all at once by right-clicking the word ActiveScripts), and check it again in an hour or two and see what it looks like.
 
Okay, did that, and now there are "only" 130 active scripts running, and the only ones that are are some variance of:
  • workshopscript (004f1b25) 4 frames (zero attached 0000000000000000)
  • autobuilder:autobuildparentscript (004f0a88) 7 frames (zero attached 0000000000000000)
With only one instance of a mod active script:
  • SimSettlements:Fragments:Terminals:TERM_kgSIM_Settings_Tools (004f5d42) 6 frames
There are probably about 115 workshopscripts active, about 14 autobuilder scripts, and that one instance of a SimSettlements script. After terminating all the scripts, I was able to go back in and start messing with plots again. One farm plot in Sanctuary was particularly broken (Marcy Long was working on a Corn Farm) and the "corn" elements are still there, but invisible. I can only see them with the Helper scrap function. The rest, though can all be called upon with ASAM sensor, moved around, assigned to people, and so on. So whatever was there that was terminated and was interfering with plot manipulation appears to be handled for the moment, but I still don't know what is calling all these workshopscripts. It only identifies as being called by Fallout4.esm. The autobuilder scripts were probably called when I messed around with replacing add on pack plots with default SS plots instead.

By the by, I'm not trying to blame SS for this. I just appreciate the help in trying to solve this mystery.
 
Now that you've got them under control, try and let everything catch up. So have it sit for 10 minutes, then save and exit and check your script count again.

This "TERM_kgSIM_Settings_Tools" makes me think you have a local plot refresh running, or multiple if you had run it during on those periods where there thousands of scripts. Letting those finish up will help a lot.

Oh, I figured you weren't blaming SS, just wanted to clarify for the history books when people come back and read these posts. ;)
 
Yeah, during the problems, I used the demolish function on all plots in all areas, but it only blew up one spot in Sanctuary (where I was at the time), which was Marcy's farm. Apparently that didn't work very well. I was able to scrap the farm as normal, but those invisible elements are still there, like I said. I did try to refresh that particular plot numerous times to try to get it to work, but it wasn't flying at all.
 
Place Everywhere has a mode when you push Insert that should allow you to scrap those invisible elements.
 
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