Playing a savior...

Discussion in 'Conqueror General Forum (Chat Here)' started by Nekoyoubi, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Nekoyoubi

    Nekoyoubi New Member

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    I understand that there are liberator factions now, but I'm not sure how that system works (as I have no faction packs, currently), but assuming I simply want to play a "good guy" that goes around saving raider/greenskin/atomists/etc-infested (prebuilt) settlements and having that essentially unlock the settlement as "mine" (as close to vanilla settlements as possible), would that be able to be done in the current state of conqueror. If so, what advice would you give for setting something like this up.

    I really like IDEK's Logistic Stations, and am not at all a fan of the vassal-vs-outpost concept (or at least my, probably broken, understanding of it). Is this just something I have to lose in order to save the pre-builts?

    While I have one playthrough that I'm hoping will be able to be a dedicated raider, I feel like the majority of my toons would be "liberators", but I'm unsure as to what that means (mechanically); obviously, I wouldn't expect liberators to offer enslavement as an option (though, I could be wrong there), but do they also penalize outposts for playing IR, or feeding themselves?

    Sorry if I'm not making much sense here, but any advice you can give would be much appreciated.
     
  2. ConvexFM

    ConvexFM Guest


    As of CP4 (Liberator Update), Kinggath added support for Liberator Factions. You will need to install the Brotherhood or Minutemen Faction pack to play as your savior. Without your settlements under their branch, you won't be able to access the liberator functions. It completely changes how conquerer is played when you are a liberator, and I highly recommend trying it out in the Minutemen pack.
     
  3. Ain't Much

    Ain't Much Guest


    Liberator Faction Packs won't necessarily provide a way to free settlements from a specific faction (raiders, etc). It will depend on what the Faction Pack author set for enemy types of that faction. My own Triggermen Faction Pack has both Conqueror and Liberator versions, but any enemy can be spawned when I raid or liberate a settlement because I didn't feel there was a specific enemy to the Triggermen. I've seen Gunners, raiders, even Minutemen (vanilla). The Faction Pack author ought to include in the Description what will spawn with their pack to help players.
     
  4. Nekoyoubi

    Nekoyoubi New Member

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    Thank you both for your responses.

    I decided after posting this that I would just burn a playthrough with it and see what I could figure out. I am playing with the Militarized Minutemen (man, are they cool), and have been confused and irritated most of the playthrough so far. Now that I've gotten about a dozen settlements under my belt, I can at least say that (in answer to my own question, yes, you are penalized by outposts as I had expected (wish there was a way to turn the vassal system off, honestly). I have at least figured out, through frustrating trial and infuriating error, the following which had eluded me previously...
    • Doing anything that Preston gives me doesn't seem to actually make the settlement ours, but instead, opens it like an unConquerored settlement that still needs to be attacked.
      • Even if I just walked around and used its workbenches, traded with the locals, etc., I still need to go and form an attack for it. I guess this keeps an easy way to keep settlements outside of the system, but its horribly immersion-breaking. ;(
      • Stumbling on a place and getting its patronage through questing should mean more to me than "oop, looks like I have to go shoot them for them to be my friends now." (settlers always seem to end up attacking me if I do this, but not if I can manage to liberate them before I know them.
    • Scouting was a clever way to mask the need to discover settlements before "liberating", but took a while to figure out what was going on.
      • If an alternative could be to simply get a radiant quest to tell you of somewhere in need of your liberation, that would cut down on an awful lot of wash-rinse-repeat travel just to be able to help them, I'd think.
    • Outposts don't even remotely seem work with the auto-collection from IDEK's Logistic Stations; vassals do though, and oh boy, did this take me far too long to figure out. I think the resource distribution (since it's all calculated behind the curtain —not using the actual object in the workbench) is working, but I had so much trouble with getting Sanctuary started, it may have been broken too.
      • Why wouldn't they count as a settlement to the auto-collect, but vassals would?
    • Liberator outposts have the same half-production penalty that conqueror outposts do, despite not being ran by whiny raiders who don't want to work.
    • Workshop Framework or Workshop Plus's (I can't remember which) settings for recruitment being based on your charisma seem to not be working at all.
    • A detailed breakdown of the differences in outposts and vassals in the game (or outside, for that matter) doesn't seem to exist, nor is it called out at any point for liberators (I know raiders get a quest that tutorializes the system somewhat; great scripting and voice work, by the way).
      • I assume that vassals make more sense as one of the discouragements for using soldiers to grow crops, but couldn't a shiny new 3x3 (or hell, a 4x4 would be sick) barracks that was required for recruitment (and housed [big res plot] the soldiers as a job automatically) allow you to drop the whole outpost/vassal system? Not that anyone wants to, well, other than me. I'm really just looking for things that can simplify for those of us who only get a few hours after work to play.
    • There doesn't seem to be an easy way to un-outpost a place (I'm probably just looking at the wrong stuff). I can abandon it, but shouldn't I just be able to simply free it from British —erm "Minutemen" occupation, and have it become a vassal? I'm the good guy, right?
    • I still have no idea what will happen to my save if I add other faction packs. I mean, oh my dog, the Triggermen as a set of good guys!? If I get tired of the Minutemen, or decide to alternate alliances to set the 'wealth up for a turf war, is that a thing?
    All apologies for the long-winded post, but I feel like I have a lot to say for these mods (hell, I've not even a little poured over all of the love and hate I have so far).

    So many things. So confusing. So fun. Thanks so much to all of you who make pulling my hair out so delightful.
     
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  5. Opi Vali

    Opi Vali New Member

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    Add to that the fact that unless it was just fixed actually run to faction packs at the same time can give you settlers from both in a settlement. I want to run the Minutemen, but after I have done the Raiders both
    Conqueror and Nuka World. I means for a time while I take back the Commonwealth I’ll be running both. There also needs to be a clear way to kill Jammer, but not kill Preston. I would also like to keep Ophelia and the cook.
     
  6. Otherwhere

    Otherwhere Active Member Patreon Supporter

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    Seems like Liberator settlements should be coded to not suffer the 50% food production penalty. It de-incetivises me to liberate a settlement and get dinged for it. Conqueror settlements I understand, though when you use slaves that ought to improve the output on that plot at least.
     
  7. Excessive Paranoia

    Excessive Paranoia Active Member

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    Reading this has really started to get me to reconsider using Conqueror at all. I have zero desire to play as a raider faction so I installed the Minutemen faction so I could play along the lines of a non-conqueror playthrough, but with pre-built settlements. That said, if there's really all these drawbacks and penalties even if you're playing the good guy, I'm really not sure that using it just for the pre-built settlements is worthwhile at all. Has any of this been fixed / improved to date?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  8. 1ae0bfb8

    1ae0bfb8 Active Member

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    i tried the minutemen faction but it completely nuked my game because i had that in place AS WELL as the built in conqueror raider faction. The end result was I could spawn a combo of minutemen AND raiders, and they would be friendly to each other.

    This was a fault on my part because I wanted to eliminate the institute, BOS and Railroad and have a minutemen v raider play-off for the commonwealth.

    plus there were issues with bodies remaining for days and days and i would have to run around and disable;markfordelete them which became a grind.

    In the end, I removed conqueror from my game. not because it's bad - it really isn't, but i find raiders to be limited in their outlook which is nihilistic from the get go.

    It was the same for me in nuka world - i couldn't get myself into the mindset to break everything i'd created when that DLC arrived, so any time i go there, the first thing i do is kill everyone because they're so utterly destructive in their outlook. I care nothing for their quests, and removal makes it clean (again speaking for myself).

    when the faction system matures, i may revisit conqueror again. however i have some reservations because as it stands, you've fallen out of a vault into a destroyed world, you see jammer - hes the first human contact you have - so i am curious as to how/why my character would kill him directly - or - even after meeting preston and the survivors. it's not something that i can find a reason to do.

    would it be possible - if you meet jammer and don't want to join him - that there is no more to him? he is somehow written out of the game without killing him? you simply refuse to join his plan for world domination, and that's that?

    of course you can still kill him if that's your bag, but i am wondering if there's a more peaceful solution, simply refusing and going off and having another life?

    i think the faction system is good, and offers a lot more flavor to the base game, but you need an author who's in it for the long game, and i don't know if that's as wide-ranging as i thought it would be. i know that the minutemen faction hasn't been updated since it was published and i fear it may never be.

    anyway, these are my thoughts. i think conqueror is good - if you can play a raider faction - and i think it offers so much in terms of variety of faction.

    i think the faction system is a good base to build on, but you need to be dedicated, as it requires work and effort to not only produce a faction, but to maintain it as conqueror grows.

    don't know if this comes off as negative. it's not meant to be.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  9. Excessive Paranoia

    Excessive Paranoia Active Member

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    The more I'm thinking about this, the more it seems like the issue is that Conqueror itself needs to be cut in half. The base Conqueror mod needs to just be a framework like RotC and then the entire raider questline / content needs to be separated out into the "default" faction pack. That would either then be uninstalled in favor of, or overwritten by, alternative faction packs which should fully replace that content with faction specific content. That way, the basic framework of Conqueror would be there to allow prebuilt settlements, outposts, and liberating / conquering without having this extra, permanent layer of raider content and balancing that mucks up our ability to play the good guy still.
     
  10. Excessive Paranoia

    Excessive Paranoia Active Member

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    I don't necessarily need a way to kill them, but having a clear path to take when I'm not planning on playing a raider faction would be ideal. Something at least better than "Help Jammer (Or don't)"...
     
  11. crag

    crag New Member

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    Hold on.. what if you are *just* using the pre-built settlements with no packs? Running the "regular" game with pre-built settlements. Are these penalties still in place?
     
  12. Excessive Paranoia

    Excessive Paranoia Active Member

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    Unless you're not planning on acquiring the settlements for yourself, I think you'll have to deal with it. So far it seems like the best way to play like this is to make everything a vassal and then set the option to control your vassals. That way you minimize the number of settlements with a penalty and also keep control of them once you have them.
     
  13. crag

    crag New Member

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    Vassals? So I have to conquer them, not just run a quest for them, get use of their Workshop and then assign a leader?

    I haven't even played NukaWorld yet. Keep restarting when new mods hit and only managed to finish the MQ once. Was hoping Conquer would save me time, of not having to build every settlement. That I could go in, run a quest (which someone always assigns) get control of the Workstation, lay down IDEK's Logistic Stations and move on.

    But if I do this I incur penalties.. which slows the growth (and production) of the settlement. I assume there's no way to turn these off?

    I would be interested in running a MM faction. But conquering a settlement seems out of place for the MM. Or even the Brotherhood.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  14. Excessive Paranoia

    Excessive Paranoia Active Member

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    Basically yes... though if you're playing a liberator faction you're not conquering them, but rather saving them.
     
  15. crag

    crag New Member

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    Ok got it. Is the MM faction ready for prime time? Heard it had some issues. Might just wait a bit until this is flushed out more.
     
  16. Excessive Paranoia

    Excessive Paranoia Active Member

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    Honestly, I don't know. I played some time with CQ installed, but I never got deep enough into the game to really have much interaction with CQ's mechanics and ended up setting it aside for a while because I'm waiting for a few update cycles and also debating if I want to play with CQ or not. The problem I've got is that CQ is so geared towards the raider content that the extra factions just feel like a tag-on feature. I'm hoping that the team are planning on fleshing out the factions system better so you don't end up with situations like described above where settlers still end up fighting your soldiers because they think they're raiders, but 3 update cycles in from that point and nothing is changing that I can tell. As a result, I'm trying to decide if pre-built settlements alone are enough reason to have CQ installed, or if I should just play without it.
     
  17. crag

    crag New Member

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    [QUOTE="...also debating if I want to play with CQ or not. The problem I've got is that CQ is so geared towards the raider content that the extra factions just feel like a tag-on feature. I'm hoping that the team are planning on fleshing out the factions system better so you don't end up with situations like described above where settlers still end up fighting your soldiers because they think they're raiders, but 3 update cycles in from that point and nothing is changing that I can tell. As a result, I'm trying to decide if pre-built settlements alone are enough reason to have CQ installed, or if I should just play without it.[/QUOTE]

    I dropped CQ for now. Even with the MM faction, it still feels Raider focused.. which is fine. Just not for me. I feel we sort have this already with Nuka World.. The only feature I really wanted is the pre-built settlements. BUT since the settlements have penalties until conquered, (the MM don't conquer. they integrate), I'll just build them
     
  18. Iirly

    Iirly Member Patreon Supporter Support Team

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    Just chiming in with my twocents:

    1) Playing with Prebuilts.

    You can play just the regular game and get settlements the old fashioned way and still have prebuilt cities. I've never experienced any penalties doing it this way and I've done it for two play throughs. You gain the cities just like you would in the base game, just some of them are already built up a bit. You take them over, put in a city leader and its business as usual. The only way to change that is to place down the warplanners desk and activate a faction. that sets a whole bunch of things in motion for vassals and what not. This is my experience how ever, your mileage may vary.

    2) The Minute Man faction

    This faction pack is basically not really ready for primetime nor do i think it ever will be. Why? because it will never be given the detail and attention that the Raider quest is given. There are no cool quests to start the Minumen faction up, no cool interactions between minute men to further the story. Basically its Raiders redressed as the good guys. You still have to attack a settlement to liberate it. So unless Kinggath's team or a similarly dedicated team with similar resources can sit down and make deep, lore filled, dedicated faction packs for other factions besides the raiders, Other factions will always be a ghost of the fully fleshed out faction pack the raider play through is. Which is a shame because we already had a raider faction DLC, That's what Nuka world was.

    I agree with it being said that Conqueror should be like ROTC, a base that puts all the pieces in place, and make the Raider faction the maybe the default pack but not required to play. That said, Even the most dedicated faction pack makers would be hard pressed to have a faction as detailed and well fleshed out as the conqueror pack. Some changes should also be made, If i'm a liberator, why do I have to Attack a settlement to 'save' it? Why can't I speak to them, pick up a quest to help them short up defenses and fend off an attack instead? I don't know how making all this stuff works and I might be in the minority of people being someone who doesn't ever want to play the bad guy. But it seems like playing as a 'good' guy got kicked to the curb in this expansion. But i do like the pre built cities, so i use it for that. If nothing else, maybe make a separate mod to Just allow cities to be prebuilt.
     
  19. crag

    crag New Member

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    Exactly.

    I have not tried just using the pre-built cities and acquiring them normal way ONLY. Gonna fire up a new game and give it a shot.
     

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