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[PC] Beds disappearing from settlements without reason?

Don_Bonnigan

New Member
Messages
2
I’ve run into a peculiar issue. It’s my first time using the mod but I’ve looked through the FAQs and known issues and it wasn’t in either so I assume it’s a bug. I have read this topic (https://simsettlements.com/site/index.php?threads/missing-beds-and-blue-men-after-upgrade.4797/) which is similar to what I'm experiencing, but is still different in a few ways.

For whatever reason beds and resources seem to randomly disappear from the settlements. It sometimes happens for food and water, but it’s mainly beds. For example, Tenpines Bluff had 8 settlers and 10 beds in the workshop menu, so their bed needs were fulfilled. However, when I check into the workshop menu about an hour later there’s now only 6 beds. When I get to the settlement I see that indeed there are only 6 beds in total (including res plots) and happiness is dropping to boot. I’ve had Sanctuary drop from 19 beds to 10 in the same set of circumstances. The happiness drop resulting from it means that I can rarely get the settlements above 70 happiness in the long run.

In all, I’d say it happens 1-2 times in a 4 hour time frame. In addition, both Sanctuary and Tenpines have been at 100% to upgrade from Lv0 for some time now and still have yet to upgrade. I play with both Citizen Needs and Dynamic Needs off so the happiness drop shouldn't affect the upgrade process, but I still can't help but feel that these disappearing plots might be why the cities won't upgrade.

I've tried refreshing the city to no avail. I've since noticed that I get a message about a settler building something at about the same time as this issue occuring, though I don't know if this is causing the issue or whether the settlers are simply trying to build in the newly freed up space.

I did have the 3in1 sim settlement esp above the Workshop Framework esp in my load order, and have swapped them, but the issue persists, so I don’t know if that’s had a lasting effect or not. I also updated Sim Settlements and Workshop Framework from earlier versions a little while back, so I don't know if something might have gone wrong in the update process. I can post a copy of my load order for reference if needed though I don’t have any mods the wiki listed as incompatible.
 

Don_Bonnigan

New Member
Messages
2
I wouldn't be able to know for sure if the exact ones that disappeared upgraded while I was away, but I'd say it's quite a high chance that they did.
 

The Typical Idiot Fan

Active Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
419
I just realized I didn't read most of your issues well enough, so let me start over.

For whatever reason beds and resources seem to randomly disappear from the settlements. It sometimes happens for food and water, but it’s mainly beds. For example, Tenpines Bluff had 8 settlers and 10 beds in the workshop menu, so their bed needs were fulfilled. However, when I check into the workshop menu about an hour later there’s now only 6 beds. When I get to the settlement I see that indeed there are only 6 beds in total (including res plots) and happiness is dropping to boot. I’ve had Sanctuary drop from 19 beds to 10 in the same set of circumstances. The happiness drop resulting from it means that I can rarely get the settlements above 70 happiness in the long run.

So they're not reappearing when you go back. That's interesting. Are you using a city plan or just building on your own? Using only plots or a mix of plots and your own thing?

In all, I’d say it happens 1-2 times in a 4 hour time frame. In addition, both Sanctuary and Tenpines have been at 100% to upgrade from Lv0 for some time now and still have yet to upgrade. I play with both Citizen Needs and Dynamic Needs off so the happiness drop shouldn't affect the upgrade process, but I still can't help but feel that these disappearing plots might be why the cities won't upgrade.

Upgrades are less cut and dry than that percentage mark on the HUD widget and what the city plan desk tells you. There are, in actually, three things to look at:

1). Time. Upgrades don't always happen right away even at 100%. This is especially true if you have "auto city upgrades" turned to "manual city upgrades" (like I do, and I recommend it) where the city won't do squat until you tell it to.

2). The percentage meter under the HUD Framework widget or on the city plan desk needs to be 100%, obviously. This is what tells you that enough time has passed, enough settlers have arrived, and enough other things have occurred for an upgrade to be POSSIBLE. Because...

3). The donation bin. Look in there. If the "amount of scrap collected" isn't 100% too, the city isn't upgrading, period. They need that scrap to upgrade! Just because they are willing to doesn't mean they can. You can let this come naturally (they will collect scrap on their own, but this takes a while), donate scrap with the donation function, pile a crap ton of scrap in the workbench (which they will pull from quicker than the first option, but still too slow), or link settlements by provisioner routes (shared resources help build scrap revenues quicker). Any of the non interference options take a while, though, so if you want to get it done faster, donate scrap yourself to the donate box. Even if this gets to 100%, if there hasn't been enough time between upgrades and the "readiness' meter isn't 100%, too, you're not going anywhere. So, get this to 100%, get the other thing to 100%, and you should be ready to upgrade. It may take another day or so for the scripts to catch up and say "oh, right, we can do this now", but it'll do it. If you're impatient (like I am), on the City Plan Desk you can manually kick the upgrade button into gear (same place as the "select city plan" or "choose leader" place).

I've tried refreshing the city to no avail. I've since noticed that I get a message about a settler building something at about the same time as this issue occuring, though I don't know if this is causing the issue or whether the settlers are simply trying to build in the newly freed up space.

City refreshments just rebuild the framework of the city, not plots. So all the walls, or towers, or stairs, or water pumps, or whatever, that are part of the city plan are rebuilt to whatever level you're on (so level 0 refreshes the level 0 plan, level 1 refreshed the level 1 plan, etc). Plots are unaffected by this. As for whether a settler might be building something at the same time, that COULD be a script lag or backup problem. It could also just be random hooey. However, I do know that when houses upgrade, the bed count will go down. It shouldn't go down by 9 like you were seeing, unless 9 houses upgraded at the same time, but it will go down, then back up. I wonder if what you're seeing, though, is something else, but I don't know what.

I did have the 3in1 sim settlement esp above the Workshop Framework esp in my load order, and have swapped them, but the issue persists, so I don’t know if that’s had a lasting effect or not. I also updated Sim Settlements and Workshop Framework from earlier versions a little while back, so I don't know if something might have gone wrong in the update process. I can post a copy of my load order for reference if needed though I don’t have any mods the wiki listed as incompatible.

That shouldn't matter. WSFW effects things other than Sim Settlements, but they're designed to work together. But whether WSFW is above or below the 3-in-1 shouldn't matter. WSFW being an esp file should be well after both Sim Settlements and Workshop Plus (if you have it) which are both esm files (and there, WS+ comes before SS). I think I have WSFW at the top of my esp list, but I don't think it has to be. I strongly recommend, though, that you get to the latest versions of SS, which have the most updated patch fixes. You MAY also have to go into the holotape or MCM sim settlements menu and "refresh local data" for each settlement. That sometimes fixes some clunky stuff.

Another thing I would check is possible active script buildup which causes a crapton of problems. One way to try to fix this is to just sit in a settlement for about 15 minutes and see if stuff doesn't start happening. BUT, if you want to check, there is a program called ReSaver which is available through the Nexus, which allows you to check your save files and see if things are not working right. If you have that, you can check your save files for "active scripts" and see if you have a bunch running. Anything over 10 is unusual, but 50+ and you have issues.
 

Don_Bonnigan

New Member
Messages
2
Thank you for the thorough response.

So they're not reappearing when you go back. That's interesting. Are you using a city plan or just building on your own? Using only plots or a mix of plots and your own thing?

Completely leaving the town to it's own devices. I haven't added a thing to any of the settlements once I started their plans.

Upgrades are less cut and dry than that percentage mark on the HUD widget and what the city plan desk tells you. There are, in actually, three things to look at:

1). Time. Upgrades don't always happen right away even at 100%. This is especially true if you have "auto city upgrades" turned to "manual city upgrades" (like I do, and I recommend it) where the city won't do squat until you tell it to.

2). The percentage meter under the HUD Framework widget or on the city plan desk needs to be 100%, obviously. This is what tells you that enough time has passed, enough settlers have arrived, and enough other things have occurred for an upgrade to be POSSIBLE. Because...

3). The donation bin. Look in there. If the "amount of scrap collected" isn't 100% too, the city isn't upgrading, period. They need that scrap to upgrade! Just because they are willing to doesn't mean they can. You can let this come naturally (they will collect scrap on their own, but this takes a while), donate scrap with the donation function, pile a crap ton of scrap in the workbench (which they will pull from quicker than the first option, but still too slow), or link settlements by provisioner routes (shared resources help build scrap revenues quicker). Any of the non interference options take a while, though, so if you want to get it done faster, donate scrap yourself to the donate box. Even if this gets to 100%, if there hasn't been enough time between upgrades and the "readiness' meter isn't 100%, too, you're not going anywhere. So, get this to 100%, get the other thing to 100%, and you should be ready to upgrade. It may take another day or so for the scripts to catch up and say "oh, right, we can do this now", but it'll do it. If you're impatient (like I am), on the City Plan Desk you can manually kick the upgrade button into gear (same place as the "select city plan" or "choose leader" place).

I'll have a look into these and make sure I'm currently fulfilling all of these. I'll report back how it goes.

City refreshments just rebuild the framework of the city, not plots. So all the walls, or towers, or stairs, or water pumps, or whatever, that are part of the city plan are rebuilt to whatever level you're on (so level 0 refreshes the level 0 plan, level 1 refreshed the level 1 plan, etc). Plots are unaffected by this. As for whether a settler might be building something at the same time, that COULD be a script lag or backup problem. It could also just be random hooey. However, I do know that when houses upgrade, the bed count will go down. It shouldn't go down by 9 like you were seeing, unless 9 houses upgraded at the same time, but it will go down, then back up. I wonder if what you're seeing, though, is something else, but I don't know what.

I wasn't aware that the beds go down when they upgrade, though I know that the messages I see when this issue always say settlers are starting to build something rather than performing upgrades. That, and as you said, the fact that it's multiple houses at once is what has me concerned.

That shouldn't matter. WSFW effects things other than Sim Settlements, but they're designed to work together. But whether WSFW is above or below the 3-in-1 shouldn't matter. WSFW being an esp file should be well after both Sim Settlements and Workshop Plus (if you have it) which are both esm files (and there, WS+ comes before SS). I think I have WSFW at the top of my esp list, but I don't think it has to be. I strongly recommend, though, that you get to the latest versions of SS, which have the most updated patch fixes. You MAY also have to go into the holotape or MCM sim settlements menu and "refresh local data" for each settlement. That sometimes fixes some clunky stuff.

Good to know that it wouldn't have an effect. Fortunately when I moved them I placed WSFW right near the top of my order, and my Sim Settlement is the latest version. I'll try doing the refresh local data, and see if it helps.

Another thing I would check is possible active script buildup which causes a crapton of problems. One way to try to fix this is to just sit in a settlement for about 15 minutes and see if stuff doesn't start happening. BUT, if you want to check, there is a program called ReSaver which is available through the Nexus, which allows you to check your save files and see if things are not working right. If you have that, you can check your save files for "active scripts" and see if you have a bunch running. Anything over 10 is unusual, but 50+ and you have issues.

I'll give that a try and report back how many I have running.
 

Don_Bonnigan

New Member
Messages
2
Ok, back with some results.

I'll have a look into these and make sure I'm currently fulfilling all of these. I'll report back how it goes.
I actually set upgrades to manual like you advised and shortly after sleeping got a message to upgrade both Sanctuary and Tenpines. Fortunately it seems upgrading isn't an issue.

Good to know that it wouldn't have an effect. Fortunately when I moved them I placed WSFW right near the top of my order, and my Sim Settlement is the latest version. I'll try doing the refresh local data, and see if it helps.
Refresh local data might have helped. I haven't had it happen since though I have noticed some weird quirks like Sanctuary being unhappy with an amount of water it was happy with before.

I'll give that a try and report back how many I have running.[/QUOTE]
Looks like I only have one Active Script running, Survival Option. At least I know a script overload.
 

The Typical Idiot Fan

Active Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
419
Those triangular !'s on the pip boy don't indicate a happiness issue, it usually means something "changed" or something is wrong with the water supply. Most likely what happened is you moved out of range of Sanctuary JUST ENOUGH that the water producing structures all phased out as the cell was "de populated" by the game's engine and the Pip Boy picked up that change in water production (it was probably some funky number like 426 which you see appear when something goes wrong). When you moved back in range, the water production items respawned and started producing again, so it "changed" on the Pip Boy report back to what it should have been, but it was a "problem" until that happened. In other words, ignore that. That's an old vanilla problem.

So, anything still ailing you or are you all good now?
 
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