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Question Odd crash at Red Rocket mole rat cave

dresden81

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I'm using the separate SS mods with Conqueror and some Conq faction mods and when I start the game I will let Conqueror set up fully then go through the intro. I then go meet with Codsworth and do his first quest then meet up with Dogmeat. I'll then go clear out the Mole Rat Cave. The problem is, it will crash the game when I try to exit the cave. This also happens with the Concord sewers. After taking only Conqueror and faction mods out of my mod list it works normally again.

So I don't know what's going on here but it seems to have something to do with mole rats in interiors. Has anyone else had this happen?
 

bullyrook

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So I don't know what's going on here but it seems to have something to do with mole rats in interiors. Has anyone else had this happen?

This is a very mysterious bug lurking in the game itself:

In my experience the mole rat CTD bug (it also affects Larva Worms in NW btw) is purely random and not caused by any single mod. The moleratambushscript gets choked out and causes CTD or blocks the ability to save, removing any script heavy mod seems to fix it.
I have gotten it once (in 6k hrs), got fed up and started over with the exact same save that I had already prebuilt with, plus the exact same LO and it hasn't happened since.
--https://simsettlements.com/site/ind...tup-can-you-run-again-or-1x-only.11599/page-2 10 November 2019


And here's something of a timeline of reports of this bug occurring:

17 July 2019
https://simsettlements.com/site/ind...ave-and-infinite-loading-while-exiting.10515/

18 March 2019
https://simsettlements.com/site/ind...iors-upon-mole-rat-detection.9436/#post-65966

***1 February 2019
Conqueror Version 4.0.1

Jammer UnjammeReleased ***

30 January 2019
https://simsettlements.com/site/ind...ng-exiting-molerat-den-under-red-rocket.8839/

28 October 2018
https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5349-mole-rat-game-freeze-bug-is-baffling-me/

***12 March 2017
Sim Settlements Version 1.0.1
Robots and Orphans Released***


14 January 2017
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/144513248282521815/

27 July 2016
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/360670708776433033/

22 December 2015
https://forums.nexusmods.com/index....to-save-after-killing-molerats-at-red-rocket/

10 November 2015
Fallout 4 Release
 

dresden81

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Well darn it. After reading all of these I have to wonder if there is some obscure bug in F4SE or some such thing. Oh well. I'll just run with regular SS for now.
 

RayBo

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Well darn it. After reading all of these I have to wonder if there is some obscure bug in F4SE or some such thing. Oh well. I'll just run with regular SS for now.

I think the best answer your going to get is the @Phil_T_Casual post in the
10Nov19 thread.

I would just try restarting

If that didn’t work-

I would try doing the prebuilt step in the elevator chamber.

and maybe setting the start stage as foundation.

Other things you could try is delaying enabling other script heavy mods.
 

bullyrook

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Oh well. I'll just run with regular SS for now.

My take away from the timeline is it’s not any mod itself that is the culprit. It’s a problem lurking in the game itself and the triggers are unknown. No one has yet to even discover a repeatable and reliable method to force the bug to show itself.

You could just start up a completely new game with the very same load order and be just as likely to not get bit by the big.

The good news, if there is any, is that it happened early for you. Some people don’t get bit to until much much later.
 

dresden81

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You could just start up a completely new game with the very same load order and be just as likely to not get bit by the big.

I actually did try multiple times with the same order. I also tried disabling other mods and starting with Foundation level and a random 50% settlements being built. I haven't tried the elevator trick. I'm just going to get on with it and just use regular SS since Conqueror takes over an hour to set up for me.

Oddly enough if I started a new game and rushed to the mole rat cave, it would work fine. Then if I reloaded my quicksave back to the Sanctuary hill and played normally doing the Codsworth and Dogmeat stuff it would crash again in the mole rat cave. :unknw
 

bullyrook

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I actually did try multiple times with the same order. I also tried disabling other mods and starting with Foundation level and a random 50% settlements being built. I haven't tried the elevator trick. I'm just going to get on with it and just use regular SS since Conqueror takes over an hour to set up for me.

Oddly enough if I started a new game and rushed to the mole rat cave, it would work fine. Then if I reloaded my quicksave back to the Sanctuary hill and played normally doing the Codsworth and Dogmeat stuff it would crash again in the mole rat cave. :unknw


This is the rub. There's no seeming way to devise a strategy to reproduce the bug. It lurks. It strikes or it doesn't. With the very same load order, you can get it in one game but not in another. You may get it while someone else with the same load out/ load order won't.

The timeline points to the fact that it has been an issue for almost as long as the game has been out. Reading the posts will also reveal that various mods at different times have been scapegoated as the cause.

In December 2015 it was "Turns out it was dD-Enhanced Blood that was f***ing my game up."

But the problem remains across time and load orders.

I'm belaboring the point only to highlight that this isn't a Conqueror problem. It seems to be a Fallout 4 problem.

And because the internets is the internets, it is important to not unintentionally scare off others from using Conqueror or any mod due to a problem that could happen in anyone's modded game regardless of load order/load out. And may occur in one game but not in another with exactly the same load order/load out. Anyone reading this thread in the future should be clear about this.
 

Bored Peon

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Well this bug is back again. Was looking to see if there was a fix yet.

For sure, it would've been fixed ages ago if we could replicate.
I have no problems replicating if it occurs. It happens every time the molerats come out of the ground after entering the Molerat Den. No matter how many times I reload.

I'm belaboring the point only to highlight that this isn't a Conqueror problem. It seems to be a Fallout 4 problem.
Yeah I have to go with this. I disabled all mods and still got the crash. Which is strange because last time I was able to turn off all mods and it stopped happening.
 

1ae0bfb8

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Sad to say your game is toast.
The only way around this is to go into any location where mole rats or bloodworms spawn and issue TDETECT, do whatever you need to do, get out, and issue TDETECT again.
That playthrough is done though.
 

Phil_T_Casual

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I have no problems replicating if it occurs. It happens every time the molerats come out of the ground after entering the Molerat Den. No matter how many times I reload.

What is meant by replication is that someone else can cause it to happen in their game by carrying out certain actions. I could take your save and load it and the problem will more than likely not occur for me.
 

1ae0bfb8

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what is more annoying - if you start a new game with the exact same load order - it wont occur.
i did all this a while back - started a new game, got to level 120-something and it occurred in nukaworld in the mine where bloodworms spawn. thankfully i'd done as much as i was going to do in that game, so i saved all my settlements using transfer settlements and one day, i'll recreate them all.
that bug - out of all others - is the one i dislike the most because it is so random and destroys your game.
 

Bored Peon

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That playthrough is done though.
So you are saying Tdetect issue is going to constantly occur through the whole playthrough? I mean I know I seen it in the Concord Sewers in addition to the Molerat Den in the same save.

I had heard about the bloodworm issue (I help a lot of people with issues on Steam forums). I did not realize it was a related issue to this. maybe because like you said either you have it or not.

Bleh, not having much luck this week.

For some reason the new game (prior to the molerat bug) I just started crashed putting the vault suit on, would not run longer than 3 seconds past the autosave after exiting the house. I messed around for almost an hour trying different graphics settings and disabling all mods. In the end I I just started a new game and it ran fine. Almost like the new game created got a bad creation script or something. Makes me wonder about all those people I helped with freezes before assuming it was a FPS or weapon debris issue.

What is meant by replication is that someone else can cause it to happen in their game by carrying out certain actions. I could take your save and load it and the problem will more than likely not occur for me.
In other words we can replicate the bug if it occurs just fine but the reason it exists is still unknown. Which if we knew why it exists we could probably replicate it. One of them damn chicken and egg dilemas.
 

RayBo

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So you are saying Tdetect issue is going to constantly occur through the whole playthrough? I mean I know I seen it in the Concord Sewers in addition to the Molerat Den in the same save.

I had heard about the bloodworm issue (I help a lot of people with issues on Steam forums). I did not realize it was a related issue to this. maybe because like you said either you have it or not.

Bleh, not having much luck this week.

For some reason the new game (prior to the molerat bug) I just started crashed putting the vault suit on, would not run longer than 3 seconds past the autosave after exiting the house. I messed around for almost an hour trying different graphics settings and disabling all mods. In the end I I just started a new game and it ran fine. Almost like the new game created got a bad creation script or something. Makes me wonder about all those people I helped with freezes before assuming it was a FPS or weapon debris issue.


In other words we can replicate the bug if it occurs just fine but the reason it exists is still unknown. Which if we knew why it exists we could probably replicate it. One of them damn chicken and egg dilemas.

“ In the end I I just started a new game and it ran fine. Almost like the new game created got a bad creation script or something. Makes me wonder about all those peopleI helped with freezes before assuming it was a FPS or weapon debris issue.”

I am glad you said that.

I have similar suspicions.

I evaluate every game at around level 20. If it seems to be dorky I restart. Consistently this seems to work well for me.

Doing this I have a similar conclusion that some games are born “with defects” or “poor vanilla genes or something”. This thought is outside the whole quagmire of setting up and playing a modded game.
 
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1ae0bfb8

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the issue is with anything that bursts out of somewhere like a bloodworm or a molerat. so you will see it in the molerat den, or in the secret vault, or in the vim brewery, vault 88 or the mine - any place you can get enemies that come up through the floor.
tdetect simply gets you through a place without combat ai triggering.
if you engage with the enemies you can't leave the cell. you get the infinite loading page and it never, ever comes back.
in the secret vault, you can't interact with curie or solve that quest because you can't leave the place due to the loading screen issue.
you can try and save your game if you like - but honestly - you're wasting your time. the only fix i know of after 4 years of this game being out is to start again. pita - i know but it is what it is.
 

Bored Peon

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“ In the end I I just started a new game and it ran fine. Almost like the new game created got a bad creation script or something. Makes me wonder about all those peopleI helped with freezes before assuming it was a FPS or weapon debris issue.”

I am glad you said that.

I have similar suspicions.
Like I was just saying I have had literally about 50+ starts to the game out of the 5000 hours played and this was the first time I ever ran into the issue of crashing in pre-war Sanctuary.

I had a few things that may have been the cause.
1. I verified my files (trying to ditch the mortal settler issue) which reset all my graphics. Which I doubled checked all the options, toggled option on/off.
2. I had a crash putting the vault suit on and restarting from the autosave led to a crash 3 seconds after loading 10/10 times. Which I kind figured might have been an issue with Conqueror scripts restarting, and 5/5 times it crashed without loading mods (which means either the scripting damage was already done or it is a common vanilla issue.) Considering I help about 2-5 people a week with that same kind of crash and they aint running Conqueror I think I can safely rule Conqueror out as being the issue.
3. Usually it is related to people trying to run with weapon debris on (without supported drivers) and trying to run the game at like 200 FPS. Which neither applies to me because my weapon debris works on my RTX 2070 and I capped the game at 60 FPS.

However saying "@#$% it" and just starting a new game and everything was fine kinda rules both of the above out.

Toss, them save files.
:blush
start over.

you’ll be happier. :bye
Yeah I just got to thinking about a guy I helped out a few weeks ago. He somehow exited Fort Hagen and did not trigger the Prydwen, so it never arrived (which he left out til later.) He literally carried forward a bug that almost every quest in Act II and Act III had to be completed via console commands. Most likely because every script checking to see if NPCs exist got stopped.

Yeah I aint buying a ticket to that rodeo.
 

Bored Peon

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if you engage with the enemies you can't leave the cell. you get the infinite loading page and it never, ever comes back..
Yeah, at one point when I had the bug back in June I got the mobs to stop freezing the game but it would not let me exit the Molerat Den or Concord Sewers. The way you can tell that the issue is still there is they act like they do not see you, as in do not charge you.
 

RayBo

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Yeah, at one point when I had the bug back in June I got the mobs to stop freezing the game but it would not let me exit the Molerat Den or Concord Sewers. The way you can tell that the issue is still there is they act like they do not see you, as in do not charge you.

yep, exactly!

And the freeze while saving once that has happened.
 
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