Fix for FallUI / Complex Item Sorter breaking SS2's Quests

[somnambulist]

At this point, are we still hoping that M8r updates CIS for SS2 compatibility? Is there anyone in the community more knowledgeable about CIS sorting that could investigate this further and figure out how to create sorting rules for CH 3? I’m feeling pretty wary about re-enabling CIS at all with how incompatible it’s been with the CH 3 quest lines so far, but I would really rather not break my save OR abandon item sorting altogether…

To my knowledge it's only the quest and possibly radio station tagging that are known to cause issues with SS2 — item tagging should be fine but, as I noted above, ComplexSorter will tag a lot of records that SS2 uses to implement mechanics like city plan and theme selection.

If you're looking for a middle-ground, rebuild your sorting patch but completely exclude SS2 and its expansions. I'd still turn-off quest and radio tagging considering the issues it can cause.

It's already possible to catch most issues with pre-filter rules exclusions but those are either global or per ESP/ESM; it'd probably be better to implement as a CS sorter plugin so it also catches 3rd party expansions. There's already one SS2 CS plugin for plot tagging but I don't believe it catches anything that already isn't excluded by CS's own SS2 filters.

 

[veelynnlove]

To my knowledge it's only the quest and possibly radio station tagging that are known to cause issues with SS2 — item tagging should be fine but, as I noted above, ComplexSorter will tag a lot of records that SS2 uses to implement mechanics like city plan and theme selection.

If you're looking for a middle-ground, rebuild your sorting patch but completely exclude SS2 and its expansions. I'd still turn-off quest and radio tagging considering the issues it can cause.

It's already possible to catch most issues with pre-filter rules exclusions but those are either global or per ESP/ESM; it'd probably be better to implement as a CS sorter plugin so it also catches 3rd party expansions. There's already one SS2 CS plugin for plot tagging but I don't believe it catches anything that already isn't excluded by CS's own SS2 filters.

Yeah I’m not sure why but that didn’t work for me with these most recent crashes, but maybe I’m just “special” because I have two CIS patches.

 

[somnambulist]

I'd definitely try deleting both patches and re-creating with SS2, Chapters 2-3, and Extended excluded.

 

[GuardianMF]

To my knowledge it's only the quest and possibly radio station tagging that are known to cause issues with SS2 — item tagging should be fine

That is also my understanding. As a side note, if anyone is using 4estGimp - M8r98a4f2's Complex Item Sorter Enhancements, there is an extra set of SS2 tags that I like to remove from the 4estIconLib file in the following path: Interface\ItemSorter\FIS\TagConfiguration.Addons (and then, I generate a new output)

I'm pretty sure that the default CIS behavior is to exclude building plans and city plans from tagging, but it will still tag a bunch of other items, so I would follow the advice above to be extra careful.

 

[veelynnlove]

I'd definitely try deleting both patches and re-creating with SS2, Chapters 2-3, and Extended excluded.

Won’t the game poop itself because it’ll be missing one of the plug-ins if I delete both and recreate one?

 

[GuardianMF]

Won’t the game poop itself because it’ll be missing one of the plug-ins if I delete both and recreate one?

Although the engine does not support the removal of plugins, not all missing plugins lead to issues. In your case, you will be making a new output with mostly the same records, except for SS2 records which won't have the tags anymore. If some of those items have already spawned in your game, they might still show the CIS name, which can be reverted to the vanilla name on pickup (after dropping it) or workbench modification. Your save won't be corrupted from item name tweaks, and tags are just that.

If you don't like the warning from your missing plugin, you could always empty it of all records and leave it blank.

 

[veelynnlove]

Re: CH 3

M8r provided me with this hotfix ini for quest-tagging and gave me permission to share on here in case anyone is having issues with it before they get around to posting it in an update. (Compressed to .zip so that it can be uploaded as an ini). It currently excludes "Black King, White Knight," "Espionage," "Aide Memoire," and "Outside Assistance" from quest-tagging.

 

[Cessori]

Re: CH 3

M8r provided me with this hotfix ini for quest-tagging and gave me permission to share on here in case anyone is having issues with it before they get around to posting it in an update. (Compressed to .zip so that it can be uploaded as an ini). It currently excludes "Black King, White Knight," "Espionage," "Aide Memoire," and "Outside Assistance" from quest-tagging.
View attachment 23402

That's great! hopefully that resolves your issues @veelynnlove
So, when additional side quests etc. are added with new releases, I suspect that means that m8r98a4f2 will need to update the sorter again.

 

[Mystical Panda]

I suspect that means that m8r98a4f2 will need to update the sorter again

It might just be a 'sorter rule' (ini file) rather than a hotfix to the code.

 

[DeScruff]

Okay.... Ive been meaning to ask this...
If you just use the "Basic" mode for FallUI Item Sorter are these problems present? Or am I gonna run into trouble later on.
And what exactly is the difference between Basic and Complex? - I'm guessing the ability to fix some tags since MISC can be kinda wonky with it's sorting.

 

[somnambulist]

Oversimplifying a bit:

Basic just uses a version of the same system FO4 uses to dynamically rename objects, like when you change the receiver on a gun at a workbench. It shouldn't break anything related to SS2.

Complex runs a script on your load order and tags everything in advance -- it's more flexible than relying on the vanilla naming system, but less compatible out-of-the-box. Quest tagging is the biggest problem, but radio station tagging may cause problems as well.

Additionally SS2 re-uses vanilla armor, weapon, etc. forms to implement plots, themes, etc. — Complex Sorter tries to filter out most of those, but the filters are increasingly out of date resulting in unnecessary records getting tagged. That shouldn't break anything but the potential for breakage is there.

tldr; ComplexSorter is generally safe if you don't tag quests and radio stations but weirdness may still crop up because SS2 is deep magic.

 

[CastRune]

If running Mo2 .. make a SS2_CIS.esp file (no quest just for item's) then make a new SS2_CIS.esp (blank) if a item is mess up a quest or something like that.. disable the first file and enable second in MO2 .. get past block area.. disable second file and enable first file.

My set up file's
SS2.esp ( SS2 Items only ) with a back up SS2.esp (without items) my Bypass
Quest.esp ( SS2 not add to CIS list)
Radio.esp ( Old World Radio Boston, etc no SS2 stuff )
M8r Complex Sorter.esp ( rest of my mods without SS2 )

I never sort SS2 quests