Old Post Don't understand the new game balance

[Otherwhere]

I may be missing something, but I'm not seeing how Conqueror is balanced, especially on new playthru's. I'm on the original XBOne, so I only let it build about 8 settlements, usually: Starlight; Ten Pines; Sunshine Tidings; Finch Farm; County Crossing; Kingsport Lighthouse; and Coastal Cottage. I let them start at level 1 and not upgrade automatically.
I also wait, building up my character level so that I am at least lvl 10 when I take my first Outpost. But the settlements are not developed enough to support my 15 or so Raiders. I take a vassal, also not developed enough (or at all) and again, can't support themselves let alone my Outpost. The Gunner attack more than decimates me, leaving me at 50% forces if I am lucky, usually more like 10% survive. This might help with the food and bed needs, but I have to wait to rebuild my army. OK, so I wander, scout new settlements, give Jammer chems & caps to recruit troops, and try to build up some plots, but they don't upgrade (or not fast enough?) because the Outpost lacks nearly everything. None of the city plans are set up to house an army, and if I take it as an Outpost, all the settlers are dead and my Raiders don't fill all the positions vacated - agri, industrial, business - so I am left wondering: How in the Heck do I do this? Taking an outpost with Slaves only exacerbates the situation because now I need to house both the slaves and the new Raider recruits! Oi!
I get it that Outposts are supposed to be for recruitment. Ok. But like I said, none of them are developed enough. I can slap down a prebuilt home and throw sleeping bags down, but that doesn't feel very immersive. So I am trying to balance building up while I struggle with resource needs not being met, etc., because I and my settlements are just too low level.
Am I missing something? Is it because all the extra bells & whistles aren't added in yet? Or is it really not balanced?

 

[JamesBowen]

Early on it's tough I have to use fat nukes and grenades to make it through. By level 25 opposite occurs, it becomes super easy.

 

[Otherwhere]

@JamesBowen I'm sure that's true. What I'm trying to bring forward is that Conqueror isn't balanced for a fresh character because: settlements are too low to support your Raider army, and/or pre-built settlements will be too tough if they are set above Level 1 due to walls, turrets, and settlers (plus the hired guards). Set at level 1, they are too low to accommodate or support an Outpost.
I don't know a solution. I just find myself constantly running into this imbalance. On Xbox, I lack the console commands to just level up a settlement, etc., and so can't speed up the process of getting to a more end-game state, which is what I think @kinggath designed this for.
Don't get me wrong - I love SS and what he and all the mod authors and designers are doing! But this current system isn't working (for me) on a new, Conqueror-focused character starting at level 1 and approaching the game from there.

 

[Otherwhere]

@kinggath Is it accurate that the # of Raider Recruits Jammer will get is capped at the # of beds/houses in the settlement? Once I lost my 15 raiders and was down to 5, I gave him a ton of chems and 500 caps to recruit, and 5 days later I only had 7 - the # of beds/houses in my level 1 Finch Farm outpost. I suppose I could just spam sleeping bags, but is that the way this is supposed to work? I'm concerned because I know my Xbox can't handle settlements above level 1, sometimes (if I am lucky) to level 2 but those frequently cause lags, freezes, and crash to home screen.

 

[JamesBowen]

My daughter and I played last full through on very hard and overall I thought it was too easy. When we encountered what you did we just went back and got 8 to 10 levels from quests. Then we conquered the 34 settlements. You definately cant just do it immediately after leaving the museum.

 

[Rocola]

if you think for moment It is realistic, who'd want to conquer a nearly empty or not upgraded settlement?. that's one reason there are no raiders there once you get out of the vault. let the cities upgrade and slowly form a gang, then conquer the commonwealth

 

[Otherwhere]

Thanks, guys. I may be trying to get into Conqueror too fast, but my main concern still holds: That on an original Xbox, the settlements (city builds) need to stay low level (small) because my system just can't handle it, and that may very well limit my ability to use and enjoy Conqueror.
Ah well... I have been thinking about getting a gaming PC, in which case I could start using the CK and adding to the SS mods, making factions, etc. Money I really should spend on other things, like debt reduction, but if I seriously want to enjoy SS and all the add ons, it is worth thinking about.

 

[kinggath]

We're looking into ways to smooth out the experience. One of the things we didn't consider when developing it, was that players would want to JUST do Conqueror stuff - which there just isn't enough to level up your character to do that.

So we're working on additional content outside of the raiding to give you more things to do as a Raider, but quest content takes a decent amount of time to develop, so it will take us a few patches to get to a point where you have enough to do to level up successfully.

We also have a bunch of key features in development for the raiding system itself, so I don't want to rebalance the existing content until after all of that is released.

I think JamesBowen hit the nail on the head though, that long term, we're going to actually need to make this harder.

New features first, then we'll double back and do a balance overhaul.

 

[Otherwhere]

Thanks, kinggath! Yeah - I've done the vanilla quest enough. It was meh to begin with, so I have challenged myself to try and do my own story by making up Alternate Start characters - Forged, Child of Atom, Gunner, Viktor Fries - and use cheat mods and mods to help me tweak the game to suit. SS Conqueror offers the potential for much more integrated mechanics for that, so I appreciate you keeping we XBox players in mind!

 

[Rudy]

@Otherwhere by having only 8 or so settlements pre-build, how do you intend on using Conqueror to take the rest over?
An option is to have your character 'settle' it first, build a power and beacon, and then take it over. It's a work-around for not having a super computer to run Bethesda's game engine. However, I think that once you get 10 or more settlements worked up with SS plots and scripts you will likely be in the same delicate game state as if you had started them at level 1. It may be that you'll need to vanilla build some of the vassal settlements and only have a few running SS.

 

[Otherwhere]

@Rudy I think that I have to limit how many settlements I build overall, regardless of using RoTC cities or my own SS built ones. From my experience, letting a spot like Starlight advance to level 2 often resulted in crashes. Even if I built my own structures via SS, I had to keep my population small (around 10-12 max), so Conqueror would not mean conquering all 36? 48? Commonwealth settlements as cities, or even taking them all and making them into anything more than the bare minimal settlements they already are (base level).
Right now, I'm just playing around and testing the mod. I'm trying to learn how it works, and how to balance the requirements, with what my system can handle and still have fun.

 

[Rojobow]

@Rudy I think that I have to limit how many settlements I build overall, regardless of using RoTC cities or my own SS built ones. From my experience, letting a spot like Starlight advance to level 2 often resulted in crashes. Even if I built my own structures via SS, I had to keep my population small (around 10-12 max), so Conqueror would not mean conquering all 36? 48? Commonwealth settlements as cities, or even taking them all and making them into anything more than the bare minimal settlements they already are (base level).
Right now, I'm just playing around and testing the mod. I'm trying to learn how it works, and how to balance the requirements, with what my system can handle and still have fun.

If you've been having some issues with gummy raiders, like all of us are really, there is an amazing set of mods by SKK50 called SKK Combat Settlers. I was noticing the same issues and although i play on PC this mod is extra squeaky clean and has been made to work well with both xbox and pc.
This guy is killing it with his mods, they are working amazing with my Conqueror play through right now and i can't imagine my game without them any longer. His settlement attack system is just as good and brand new.

 

[VersusXV]

We're looking into ways to smooth out the experience. One of the things we didn't consider when developing it, was that players would want to JUST do Conqueror stuff - which there just isn't enough to level up your character to do that.

So we're working on additional content outside of the raiding to give you more things to do as a Raider, but quest content takes a decent amount of time to develop, so it will take us a few patches to get to a point where you have enough to do to level up successfully.

We also have a bunch of key features in development for the raiding system itself, so I don't want to rebalance the existing content until after all of that is released.

I think JamesBowen hit the nail on the head though, that long term, we're going to actually need to make this harder.

New features first, then we'll double back and do a balance overhaul.

Awesome, that's definitely me. Before conqueror I already just do sim settlements, now it's all about Conqueror. Perfect approach to it as well IMO. Since balancing a lot at each step you go will slow things down since each new addition will change the balance.

Harder is definitely good, that is a big thing I have in mind for when I make a faction.

For now I get by with levels by bumping it every so often using some silly EXP Radroaches I made.

Ah well... I have been thinking about getting a gaming PC, in which case I could start using the CK and adding to the SS mods, making factions, etc. Money I really should spend on other things, like debt reduction, but if I seriously want to enjoy SS and all the add ons, it is worth thinking about.

Highly recommended for sure. I am doing a low spec guide but will also have a part 2 on it for PC specs recommendation(that also can help inform about what resolution/settings the player should be using). I mainly need to get more informed about the AMD side of things first since I only know Intel/Nvidia for the most part.

That is exactly what I did last year. Was on Xbox, bought PC. The loading times alone are night & day difference

 

[MrCJohn]

"That is exactly what I did last year. Was on Xbox, bought PC. The loading times alone are night & day difference"

Not to mention the sheer supremacy of a freelooking mouse and keyboard for combat (or anything)!

Sorry, it is. Even my teen boys, controller masters for PS4, discovered what I have been telling them for years....

.... result is a PS4 that just collects dust now....

John

 

[MrCJohn]

So the question I have... do you all do the prebuilts with a new game after Character Creation? and if so, how many do you do? Levels etc?

I have been playing around with it... I have tried foundations to all level 3's...

And being a player who plays survival exclusively, the higher levels and completion seems "cheaty"....

And I am not into this for the Jammer quest only... but inclusive of the entire game... and as I just did a long game with Horizon... I am playing with this for my next "new game" which I hope lasts months... game play vs. modding play.

Any recommendations for a survival player? Starting # of settlements? Starting level? % filled with settlers? etc?

Thanks,
John

PS - need to figure out how to build a brothel. Sounds like up uituit's alley... call it the MrC House with MrCJohn behemoth as the bouncer! :D