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Closed Crashing on quick-travel to settlement

S

Sipiri

New Member
Messages
9
Steps to reproduce:
-Have my save file
-Have Sim settlements installed
-Quick travel to Sanctuary or nearby travel point

I removed every other mod and isolated the issue to the sim settlement mod. The game crashes with or without the script extender. The crash occurs even after running the helper to restart the workshop array. The crash goes away when sim settlements is removed or when I run the self-destruct sequence.


Any advice on saving my city?


Update:


Game save file (last clean save before I started troubleshooting) https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1t5f2gzy...rtHagen01_002257_20170912084800_18_2.fos?dl=0

PC specs: sufficient.

FO4 load menu settings:
textures: medium
Shadows: low
Shadow distance: medium
Decal: none
Lighting: Medium
Godrays: Low
ambient occlusion: off
Weapon debris: off

FO4 in-game display settings: Actor fade, item fade, object fade, and grass fade sliders are on the extreme left (unsure if this is low graphics or high graphics settings)
SS Performance options: Everything is turned off

Census:

Abernathy:
No development; workshop not unlocked

Red Rocket:
9 civilians
10 total plots
  • 3 agricultural plots
  • 3 orphaned industrial plots (from hunter-gatherer mod uninstallation)
  • 1 orphaned advanced industrial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 2 orphaned 1x1 martial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 1 orphaned 2x2 martial plot (from jtbryant's mod uninstalation)
Vanilla objects: nearly 100% cleaned; 11 beds and some workbenches. I do not have spring cleaning or scrap everything installed.

Sanctuary:
24 civilians
24 total plots
  • 4 agricultural plots
  • 3 orphaned recreation plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 10 orphaned advanced industrial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 6 orphaned 1x1 martial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 1 orphaned 2x2 martial plot (from jtbryant's mod uninstalation)

Vanilla objects: Sanctuary is around 70% cleaned; 27 beds; several workbenches; one defense turret. I do not have spring cleaning or scrap everything installed.



Steps taken: Removed all orphaned plots; removed all settlers from red-rocket; removed all but mama-murphy from sanctuary.
Result: No crashing on sanctuary fast travel
 
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How many plots do you have in the settlement?

Which performance settings are you running?

Crash on fast-travel is almost always an issue with too many polygons being loaded at once for your system to handle. You can try to set a fast travel point facing away from the problem settlement, it helps sometimes.
 
Also try fast travelling to that little shack west of Abernathy and walk north slowly. once Sanctuary starts loading in, stop and let it load.

It wouldn't hurt to toggle AI off for a minute or two every 50 yards or so. (console command tai, turn off console, wait a minute or two, and then console tai again.)

As long as your entire sanctuary build is not on the south end of the island, the island should load slowly enough to not cause a meltdown.

When you get far enough in that you can access the city manager holotape, turn off clutter in the settings and then refresh all plots. With any luck that'll correct the poly issue enough that the CTDs slow down a little.
 
You can try the options here: https://simsettlements.com/web/wiki/index.php?title=Performance

If Sanctuary or Red Rocket are above 20 settlers, try sending some of them to another settlement. If you have a lot of vanilla items, walls/turrets/etc.., try removing some of them.

Edit Add: You might have a super computer, but the game engine is still old with a lot of tweaks. The game engine will not handle 40+ settler settlements, or even 20+ settler settlements with a bunch of vanilla items along with SS plots.
 
On a vanilla PC install without the papyrus script optimizations, I wouldn't take Sanc, RR and Abernathy combined above 40 settlers total across all 3. The cells are just too close together and loading all that at once becomes a problem.

Even on an optimized papyrus pc install, the cap only goes up to 60ish across all 3. If you have large settlements at all 3, then the sheer poly count is going to to eat your lunch.

Also get rid of any mods that enhance or do anything to shadows. Settlement lights are pretty at night but not so pretty if you can't see them at all because of CTDs.

This sounds like a poly issue unless you're seeing symptoms of scripts backing up (settlers standing around doing nothing is the usual tell) so doing the PC enhancements and getting rid of clutter should buy you enough wiggle room to get in and see what is scrappable to reduce the poly count to a limit your machine can handle.

If you want, upload your save to a dropbox and link it here and I'll take a look and see if anything stands out. I have a little experience with larger settlements and may have some luck with that because my FO4 install has been tweaked heavily to support large settlements.
 
One thought (and sorry for the double post). If the sanc settlement is not hugely built out or overpopulated, then you may be running into the NMM bug. I can't help but wonder if you were to manually install Sim Settlements and IR from the nmm manual downloads if it would correct the issue. If your save loads up fine for me, then the suspect list immediately switches to a bunged up mod install.

NMM has been quite problematic of late.
 
Game save file (last clean save before I started troubleshooting) https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1t5f2gzy...rtHagen01_002257_20170912084800_18_2.fos?dl=0

PC specs: sufficient.

FO4 load menu settings:
textures: medium
Shadows: low
Shadow distance: medium
Decal: none
Lighting: Medium
Godrays: Low
ambient occlusion: off
Weapon debris: off

FO4 in-game display settings: Actor fade, item fade, object fade, and grass fade sliders are on the extreme left (unsure if this is low graphics or high graphics settings)
SS Performance options: Everything is turned off

Census:

Abernathy:
No development; workshop not unlocked

Red Rocket:
9 civilians
10 total plots
  • 3 agricultural plots
  • 3 orphaned industrial plots (from hunter-gatherer mod uninstallation)
  • 1 orphaned advanced industrial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 2 orphaned 1x1 martial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 1 orphaned 2x2 martial plot (from jtbryant's mod uninstalation)
Vanilla objects: nearly 100% cleaned; 11 beds and some workbenches. I do not have spring cleaning or scrap everything installed.

Sanctuary:
24 civilians
24 total plots
  • 4 agricultural plots
  • 3 orphaned recreation plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 10 orphaned advanced industrial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 6 orphaned 1x1 martial plot (from industrial revolution uninstall)
  • 1 orphaned 2x2 martial plot (from jtbryant's mod uninstalation)

Vanilla objects: Sanctuary is around 70% cleaned; 27 beds; several workbenches; one defense turret. I do not have spring cleaning or scrap everything installed.



Steps taken: Removed all orphaned plots; removed all settlers from red-rocket; removed all but mama-murphy from sanctuary.
Result: No crashing on sanctuary fast travel
 
Here's what I've found out so far: It's very likely that this is a mod conflict of some kind, I was able to load the game into vanilla with a lot fewer mods and it loaded right up. I had some trouble with quick travel to sanctuary, so I went to abernathy and walked north. When the sanc cell loaded I was able to walk right in. From that point, even though most of your structure was missing, I was able to quick travel to and from sanctuary with no problems.

Unfortunately Fallrim tools (fo4 save editor) is still broken from the most recent update so I wasn't able to deep dive as far as I would have liked into the save to see if I could find an issue.

Could you dump your load order out and paste it into this thread? Seeing what exactly you've got loaded will help.

Edit: If fallrim tools was working I'd be able to pull the mod differences between my system and yours out and compare.

Some additional thoughts: Keeping your existing load order as-is, could you try loading a game without Master Plan and Castle in the Sky? I'd like to eliminate that as a culprit early on since it seems your settlement depends heavily on it. Then do what I did, go to Abernathy and walk north until the settlement loads, then go have a look-see. If it doesn't crash while you're walking north, then its master plan or castle in the sky as the issue.

If this is the case, then there are a number of mitigation techniques that could be used to correct it but lets test it first.

Remember that at this stage, a crash is a good sign.
 
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With all mods removed except sim settlements, this bug occurs. Unless there are residual errors from a sloppy uninstall, the culprit is with sim settlements itself.
 
Sim Settlements or Sim Settlements + expansion + addons?

It also should be mentioned that even on a known good and working Sim Settlements the save still crashed the first time I tried quicktravelling to Sanctuary, which suggests some residual script was blowing it out, walking that first time likely cleared out the offending code snippet in the save and it functioned normally after that.
 
The load order is:

  • Sim settlements.

As said before, addons were removed and their orphaned plots are still there due to some underlying settings in the base sim settlements code.
 
Sipiri said:
The load order is:

  • Sim settlements.

As said before, addons were removed and their orphaned plots are still there due to some underlying settings in the base sim settlements code.
Click to expand...

The plots being left behind is normal, the plots come from Sim Settlements, it's the buildings and items spawned on top of the plots that come from the add-on

(I know that sounds like a meaningless distinction, but it isn't, we don't have any of the workshop items that you select and place in our add-ons at all, just instructions for kinggaths code to load stuff when certain types of plots are available).
 
@Sipiri, I get that you're frustrated and it's almost as frustrating to not be able to look directly at the problem in situ.

What I'm trying to tell you is that on a known good Sim Settlements install, you have to walk in that first time and then it works. This is what we need to test on your computer because you're saying that SS is the problem and I'm not seeing that at all, I'm seeing a residual script getting purged out and then it works fine again. The problem may still be Sim Settlements but I'm getting a conflict with what you're seeing which we can use to troubleshoot. (Actually, I strongly suspect the problem is one of the addons and the core needs to detect and purge the addon's scripts which for some reason quicktravel does differently than walking in does and the game crashes) but we need to do the process of elimination thing before we can find and fix the problem.
 
tankthing said:
@Sipiri, I get that you're frustrated and it's almost as frustrating to not be able to look directly at the problem in situ.

What I'm trying to tell you is that on a known good Sim Settlements install, you have to walk in that first time and then it works. This is what we need to test on your computer because you're saying that SS is the problem and I'm not seeing that at all, I'm seeing a residual script getting purged out and then it works fine again. The problem may still be Sim Settlements but I'm getting a conflict with what you're seeing which we can use to troubleshoot. (Actually, I strongly suspect the problem is one of the addons and the core needs to detect and purge the addon's scripts which for some reason quicktravel does differently than walking in does and the game crashes) but we need to do the process of elimination thing before we can find and fix the problem.
Click to expand...

Ahh I see. Some other mod caused an incompatibility which is still there. To properly remove it I need to walk back in.

This sounds like it's gonna take a whole lot of time finding the culprit. If I had to put my money on which mod is the problem I would say global workshop, place anywhere, the script extender, uncapped settlement surplus, or JTBryant's utilities. I can't imagine how any other mod could have scripting issues with settlements. Concur? (master plan just edits the wood construction menu, which ought to be unrelated). How do you recommend I should proceed?

Load order:

Code: 
 0  0 Fallout4.esm
 1  1 ArmorKeywords.esm
 2  2 HUDFramework.esm
 3  3 SimSettlements.esm
 4  4 EthreonMasterPlan.esp
 5  5 Worsin's Garage.esm
 6  6 NPC_Survival_Guides.esp
 7  7 SimSettlementsHelper.esp
 8  8 Armorsmith Extended.esp
 9  9 BossChestsHaveLegendaries.esp
10  a CastleInTheSky.esp
11  b Extended weapon mods.esp
12  c Fusebox Generator.esp
13  d GlobalWorkshop.esp
14  e HomePlateWorkshopSettlement.esp
15  f LegendaryModification.esp
16 10 LegendaryModification2LM.esp
17 11 LegendaryModificationCSA.esp
18 12 LegendaryModificationGroknak.esp
19 13 LegendaryModificationMisc.esp
20 14 SettlementMenuManager.esp
21 15 SimSettlements_AddOnPack_Utilities_JtBryant.esp
22 16 WIPAG - Decal Station.esp
23 17 WIPAG - Materials Overhaul.esp
24 18 WIPAG - Mod Overhaul.esp
25 19 WIPAG - Model-X.esp
26 1a WIPAG - Paint Garage - Full (Easy).esp
27 1b UncappedSettlementSurplus.esp
28 1c SS Addon Hunter-Gather.esp
29 1d salvagebeacons.esp
30 1e SimSettlements_XPAC_IndustrialRevolution.esp
31 1f AnotherLife.esp
 
My money is on either Hunter Gatherer or JTBryant at this point. CTD is often a missing mesh.

This may not even be caused by the mod author.

Nexus has been a little beast loading mods lately and doesn't seem to actually fully install like it says it's doing. I've had the best luck with it by outright deleting the mod I'm going to update and then installing and activating the new version, then looting the sort order so it gets put back where it belongs.

IR loading below those other addons is another one that catches my eye, if you can punt that up towards the top before any of the other addons, it might help. I know it's not supposed to matter but if something that relies on IR initializes too early before IR loads, well... kaboom. Safer to just set it higher and let it be.
 
Why is sim settlements helper still installed? That mod should only be installed to remove left over items, unscrapable items, then uninstalled.
 
Welp I'll keep an eye on them and repeat this process as needed. I'll slowly find the culprit.

Thanks for helping me troubleshoot.


Kana292 said:
Why is sim settlements helper still installed? That mod should only be installed to remove left over items, unscrapable items, then uninstalled.
Click to expand...

Because I installed it to help figure out if that was the problem or not. Thanks for reminding me to remove it.
 
Also I have had two other reports of Hunter Gatherer causing a crash. However, that was due to having the SS Vis tag mod loaded which overwrote Hunter Gatherer incorrectly and caused a crash. The other was the SS Vis mod being installed, then uninstalled, which overwrote then left Hunter Gatherer missing files (using NMM). In both cases, uninstalling the SS Vis add-on, then reinstalling Hunter Gatherer fixed the issue.

Edit Add: The SS Vis mod is: Sim Settlements Building Plans Tags and more
 
Per Kinggath, the helper probably doesn't matter. it's just adding records to allow things to be nuked. It's ok to leave it in though it makes some plot components scrappable that were never intended to be scrapped in a properly running game.

The fact that the problem goes away with SS unloaded coupled with me being able to get it to work with a game that is largely SS and a couple addons only by walking in that first time, allowing SS to clean up the offender supports the theory that an addon is being annoying.

This could still be some weird interaction between something else and one of the addons - we've seen stuff like variable names internally getting clobbered by two different mods accessing the same named variable with different data.

My point in having you test the castle addon first was more along the lines of if we've got to unload something major, at least we'd be able to save most of the hard work you've put into making that settlement look right and if we couldn't, then we'd know that up front.

Edit: For the record I've got JT Bryant's utilities loaded in my current setup. I'd recommend enabling everything and then disabling just hunter gatherer and do the first time walk-in thing.

If it works, then we have a winner.
 
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