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Casting a line Hostage quest could use a rework

C

chxwolf

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4
Hate to complain but this quest could use a revamp

Four things that wreck it are:

Placed next to a spawn point (concord would have been better) that can throw dogs to synths to the sandwich guys in the mess
No stealth option (raider talks to you at range despite not seeing you) huge pet peeve in any bethesda game
Settler magically dies sometimes if you do get the drop on the lead raider. (or if you don't get a one shot kill because you are not playing a sniper)
No intimidation/coersion option or anything except a lame bribe option (no thanks because everything else just gives the annoying raider a free kill)

not saying a player can't get around (bribe then kill) this but it could be tweaked a bit more.

Anyways, only a slight blemish on this great mod. Consider this criticism just in hopes to get my 99 percent approval to 100, hah
 
The one that dies isn't even one of YOUR settlers - tested by putting all my dudes in specific outfits that aren't in the Leveled Lists. I swear I read kinggath say somewhere that that guy's meant to join you afterwards if you saved him, but I've never seen that happen either, he either just kneels there forever or disappears.

And yeah, them being right there near where those Bloatflies spawn always results in fighting... and since Raiders love their Molotovs (especially with the modded leveled lists I run myself), someone almost invariably aggros the hostages anyway.
 
chxwolf said:
No intimidation/coersion option or anything except a lame bribe option (no thanks because everything else just gives the annoying raider a free kill)
Click to expand...
Regarding the dialogue, there is a Perk replacement for the Y option (or at the least there should be) for Awareness.
Limitations of the 4 choices of dialogue options meant I could only pick one PERK to avoid combat at this point, so I picked one players could easily get early game, that being Awareness.

Here a break down of the dialogue options and why I picked them. (Warning, minor spoilers)

A: "Let's discuss this". This will always fail, a lesson that people will sometimes not listen to reason, and that "A" is not always the correct path. The "A" option will always be available even if the player has Perks or enough caps to bribe the Raider. Settler will be killed.
Y1: "Change your mind". Same result as A (since this option will be replaced if the player has the Awareness perk.
Y2: " [Awareness] Bad idea". Use of a perk to call the Raiders bluff and avoid combat or paying him off. No settlers killed.
X1: "Mistake." Same result as A & Y1 (since this will be replaced by bribe option if the player has 100+ caps)
X2: "Bribe (100 caps)". Avoid combat or settlers being killed, but at the cost of caps.
B1: "Attack". The player is always free to simply attack the raider. An attack option is always available, and in this case is the most basic "correct" option to avoid any settlers being killed.
B2: "[Action Boy/ Action Girl] Surprise attack" A Perk replacement to the attack option, giving a buff to the player before attacking (the buffing does not currently work in game, but should in Chapter 2 onwards)

As for the other issues, I know some of those are things we have in our polish notes. The stealth option is something we want to work, and also the settler is not meant to die when you take one of the "saving" paths.
 
chxwolf said:
Hate to complain but this quest could use a revamp

Four things that wreck it are:

Placed next to a spawn point (concord would have been better) that can throw dogs to synths to the sandwich guys in the mess
No stealth option (raider talks to you at range despite not seeing you) huge pet peeve in any bethesda game
Settler magically dies sometimes if you do get the drop on the lead raider. (or if you don't get a one shot kill because you are not playing a sniper)
No intimidation/coersion option or anything except a lame bribe option (no thanks because everything else just gives the annoying raider a free kill)
.
not saying a player can't get around (bribe then kill) this but it could be tweaked a bit more.

Anyways, only a slight blemish on this great mod. Consider this criticism just in hopes to get my 99 percent approval to 100, hah
Click to expand...
I never talk I stealth kill them every time I play it
 
Sirick said:
I think it can be temperamental if he spots you or not. I recall he spotted me from a distance a few times during play testing.
Click to expand...
I always play a highly stealth build so I don't have to much issue. I can almost get right to Old Paul and Jake just above them for higher ground and, blip, blip, blip. Talks over.
 
Ah, yes, Blaze. The Chronically Accosted Gentleman.

I went back check on him in my current playthrough and after shooting at a bloatfly for a bit he went back and did the "hands tied behind his back" animation.
 
Sirick said:
Regarding the dialogue, there is a Perk replacement for the Y option (or at the least there should be) for Awareness.
Limitations of the 4 choices of dialogue options meant I could only pick one PERK to avoid combat at this point, so I picked one players could easily get early game, that being Awareness.
Click to expand...
Just got to say, I'm honestly quite impressed by how seamlessly those "alternate perk-based dialog options" slot in there; I'm sure I'm not the only one that's made something of a sub-game out of finding them all. (favourite one has to be 'Black Widow' letting you get out of paying THE RON those 300 caps of the ones I've found so far)
 
Dune said:
Ah, yes, Blaze. The Chronically Accosted Gentleman.

I went back check on him in my current playthrough and after shooting at a bloatfly for a bit he went back and did the "hands tied behind his back" animation.
Click to expand...


I had Piper walk over and sit in a hostage pose, reminded me of Seranna in Skyrim doing the Greybeard kneel in Hrothgar.

Sirick said:
Regarding the dialogue, there is a Perk replacement for the Y option (or at the least there should be) for Awareness.
Limitations of the 4 choices of dialogue options meant I could only pick one PERK to avoid combat at this point, so I picked one players could easily get early game, that being Awareness.
Click to expand...

Now I am sad I didn't know about the awareness thing, I'll have to see how that plays out in the future. I bribed them, shot them all (I think someone complained that they were leaving when I opened fire?) and got my caps back and everyone lived so still a helleva lot more akin to new vegas solving over bethesda.

Didn't know there was a dialogue limit to how you can set up skill checks but I can certainly see it based on my experience with the game, though i always assumed bethesda was being lazy with dialogue choices limited to only speech/charisma. Must be a pain to get around.
 
There's a mod that's trying to fix that, but it requires F4SE to work, which would be impossible to use on consoles due to how console frameworks (and Bethesda's mod net) work.
 
The dialog could be branched with a question like "can't we talk this out?" But it would be difficult to make it look good if the player didn't have any of the required perks for the choices. It would be kind of immersion breaking if you ask that question and your only dialog choice is "nevermind."

As for sneaking, once the distance between the PC and the raider leader is a certain value, the scene automatically plays.
 
I did the bribe option and left. Came back through that area later. Raiders still there and a settler kneeing, cannot interact with anyone. Killed the raiders settler still says there kneeing.
 
I've noticed over my numerous playthroughs of the SS2 questline, how many settlers your "main settlement" loses during this quest seems kind of arbitrary. The kneeling hostage that gets insta-killed doesn't seem to count as one of yours, but if he does die from that, I seem to randomly lose 0-2 population from that 'main settlement' at that instant, even if nobody else died.
 
Well poo, I wondered what I'd done in my first playthrough to get the Raiders to back down, and I kept getting settlers killed so I bribed them. Not that it was any real loss, I had plenty of caps. Read and learn.
 
Since I'm using Better Location Damage I have no choice but to attack the raiders from a distance without talking to them. Without a way to diffuse the situation talking is suicide.
 
Now I feel dumb for not knowing what awareness is. Just bribe and kill em all is what I usually do. And isn't there an option for B to tell them "DO IT"? I was nice and never picked it but going full sith on them would be fun...
 
The issues I have noticed:
  1. If you 1hk the raider boss, the settler hostage (that the raider boss points a gun at) will stay there permanently.
  2. All the hostage markers remain after the quest is complete.
 
I do the bribe then come back and kill all the remaining raiders / that settler a while later cause if not they never leave.
 
XxA1xX said:
I do the bribe then come back and kill all the remaining raiders / that settler a while later cause if not they never leave.
Click to expand...
:rofl If I do the bribe, I leave the settler there. I think its funny when you wander by there a few game months later and he is still there in the hostage pose. One time I even felt sorry for him and dropped a salisbury steak and a dirty water in front of him!
 
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