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Question Are crashes unavoidable?

S

speciousLogic

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I see regular CTD or freeze when crossing the bridge into Sanctuary. There are only five IR plots there, none above level 2. There are also three martial plots, all at level 3. All the other plots are interior: four residential, two commercial, and one recreational. This is far fewer plots than kinggath has provided as an upper bound for XBox and, as noted below, my hardware far exceeds XBox.

The ONLY mods in play are (all are up-to-date):
  • Unofficial Patch
  • SS
  • IR
  • Settlement Menu Manager
  • HUDFramework
  • Place Everywhere
  • Rename Everything
  • (those last two need F4SE, so it's in play also)
My hardware can handle the vanilla game on Ultra without breaking a sweat (it's also new with zero hardware or software mods):
  • i7-8750H
  • 32G RAM
  • GeForce RTX 2070 w/ Max-Q
  • Windows 10
Despite the strong PC, the game is set down "High" and I answered "High" to the City Manager wizard. Special Effects are OFF.

Given the enthusiasm for this mod (which I definitely share), I have to wonder: Am I the only one still bashing his head trying to play SS and Survival mode together; has everyone else given up on Survival in order to save before entering settlements (or added a mod to allow it)? The more useful question is in the subject line: Is there some way to avoid these crashes? I've read what I could find in the forums and across Google (note the absence of RotC, the short mod list, and de-tuned game).

Thanks for reading and any help,

-speciousLogic
 
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CTD's are absolutely avoidable as long as you remember when using script heavy mods you have to give them room to work.

Firstly add this to your Fallout4Custom.ini
[Papyrus]
fUpdateBudgetMS=2.4
fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=2.4
iMinMemoryPageSize=256
iMaxMemoryPageSize=1024
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=307200

Then make sure you have allocated enough pagefile in Windows. Scripts in the creation engine never stop running until they complete once started, if you have little to no pagefile you can run out of swap space and you will CTD.

I run the two most script heavy mods in the game and yes I can CTD from time to time, but over all I do very well considering what I ask of the game.

As for survival mode, I wouldn't even use that on a vanilla game as even that can crash. There are plenty of mods out there to make the game extremely difficult without adding the inconvenience of no saving and fast travel imo.
 
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Thanks, Phil.

I forgot to mention that I'd also made the Papyrus entry when trying to resolve things.

My pagefile is 24147MB, so less than actual RAM -- but 32GB is plenty of RAM so... ? When you write "enough", how much is enough?

Thanks again,
-speciousLogic
 
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your pc isn't really going to help you here, it's all about the very fragile game engine. do as nzane suggests, and tear them down, and you may want to read up about the 'triangle of death' as well.
 
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speciousLogic said:
Am I the only one still bashing his head trying to play SS and Survival mode together; has everyone else given up on Survival in order to save before entering settlements (or added a mod to allow it)?
Click to expand...

If you are going to play SS in survival mode, definitely get a mod that allows to at least make (hard) saves. I went without one for a long time. I'm much happier now.
 
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1ae0bfb8 said:
your pc isn't really going to help you here, it's all about the very fragile game engine. do as nzane suggests, and tear them down, and you may want to read up about the 'triangle of death' as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, avoiding the ToD issue -- or trying to -- by only building in Sanctuary. I scrapped RR, but built nothing there but a hand pump and a bed, and haven't even spoken with anyone at Abernathy.

Regarding tearing down the plots: That would surely work, but then what? As described above, it's a pretty modest build; is the suggestion to build even fewer plots? Blow it up and rebuild using only vanilla pieces?

@nzane, thanks, I'll take a look at the SKK workshop utilities.
 
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speciousLogic said:
Thanks, Phil.

I forgot to mention that I'd also made the Papyrus entry when trying to resolve things.

My pagefile is 24147MB, so less than actual RAM -- but 32GB is plenty of RAM so... ? When you write "enough", how much is enough?

Thanks again,
-speciousLogic
Click to expand...

Yeah that's plenty of pagefile. Honestly there must be something else going on here there is no way you should be crashing with only 15 plots and nothing built in RR.
 
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First of all: I have no idea what I'm doing, I just tried and tried.
Problems:
ctd on start
Freeze on start
extremly Long Lasting loading screens
About reaching Level 40, ctd every single time I walked of jumped to Sanctuary

Solutions:
I did the ini Change with telling the game how many cores my Prozessor has (8)
I did the a.m. Papyrus section
no start Problems at all, moderate loading times

but still Sanctuary ctd, even in red rocket (note only a few Buildings in Sanctuary, abernathy and red rocket). I could enter red rocked on foot from concord but only on the very Edge. I set the graphics on low (Ultra is recommend), reloaded, walked to Red Rocket Edge, build a bed sleped 24 Hours. Went further to the gas pumps, bed, Sleep several times.
Walked just over the Bridge, bed, Sleep ….
arriving at the work bench I just spent some time, Walking around doing minor stuff…..
saved, graphics to high, reloading and everythings works fine.
Every time I'm back in Sanctuary I Sleep at least 24 Hours.
not a single crash since then, I am now at Level 55
May be it is worth a try?
 
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So, an update of sorts. While searching around, I saw a post from kinggath mentioning some issues with wiring vanilla assets to objects from RotC. I'm not using RotC, but thought about how I've been using the "wireless glitch" since first learning about it -- so what the hell, maybe something undiscovered wrt abusing wiring w/ SS.

Now, I've just tried a play-through with no glitches and using only hard-wired connections (gawd, how painful). Got to level 44 before not being able to get anywhere near Tenpines.
  • 12 residential plots (interior) roughly half Level 3 and half Level 2
  • 1 recreational plot (interior) Level 3
  • 3 martial plots (1x1, exterior) all Level 3
  • 4 IR plots (observatory, brewery, mag press, mil salvage)
  • 2 commercial plots (I think they are Level 3 but I can't get there to see)
  • 3 agricultural plots, Level 3
  • 9 solar panels (sweet, sweet silence -- favorite thing about IR)
Tenpines was really coming together as my favorite in this build. Tidy, happy, prosperous. Hid that blasted house. Integrated the dumb shack. Just enough new construction to house everyone while leaving the place feeling wide-open. Sigh...

Since this CTD business began I've focused on IR, but maybe it's plain SS? Only the two commercial plots would be different since my last visits there, and the four IR plots have been at their respective stages for quite a while (there was also a fifth IR plot for a while that I scrapped once I'd used it to support a quest).

If there is any active effort to find and solve this problem, I am willing to pitch in. I'm a developer, and can provide more resume details if it comes to that. Primarily Java but have worked professionally with Perl and academically with C/C++. Unfamiliar (today) with Papyrus and its development environment and practices but willing to change that.
 
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bullyrook said:
Do you ctd/freeze often when you enter Sanctuary from any other direction?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response, sorry to have missed it. I abandoned that build to try another on Very Hard instead of Survival, unhappy results posted below. One thing I *can* add, though: I was able to keep playing that crash-y build for a while by approaching while "looking at my feet". No solid reason for trying that, and maybe it's as dumb as tossing salt over a shoulder, but I never got a CTD while keeping the view nearly straight down while walking in.
 
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speciousLogic said:
So, an update of sorts. While searching around, I saw a post from kinggath mentioning some issues with wiring vanilla assets to objects from RotC. I'm not using RotC, but thought about how I've been using the "wireless glitch" since first learning about it -- so what the hell, maybe something undiscovered wrt abusing wiring w/ SS.

Now, I've just tried a play-through with no glitches and using only hard-wired connections (gawd, how painful). Got to level 44 before not being able to get anywhere near Tenpines.
  • 12 residential plots (interior) roughly half Level 3 and half Level 2
  • 1 recreational plot (interior) Level 3
  • 3 martial plots (1x1, exterior) all Level 3
  • 4 IR plots (observatory, brewery, mag press, mil salvage)
  • 2 commercial plots (I think they are Level 3 but I can't get there to see)
  • 3 agricultural plots, Level 3
  • 9 solar panels (sweet, sweet silence -- favorite thing about IR)
Tenpines was really coming together as my favorite in this build. Tidy, happy, prosperous. Hid that blasted house. Integrated the dumb shack. Just enough new construction to house everyone while leaving the place feeling wide-open. Sigh...

Since this CTD business began I've focused on IR, but maybe it's plain SS? Only the two commercial plots would be different since my last visits there, and the four IR plots have been at their respective stages for quite a while (there was also a fifth IR plot for a while that I scrapped once I'd used it to support a quest).

If there is any active effort to find and solve this problem, I am willing to pitch in. I'm a developer, and can provide more resume details if it comes to that. Primarily Java but have worked professionally with Perl and academically with C/C++. Unfamiliar (today) with Papyrus and its development environment and practices but willing to change that.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, this post just piqued my interest while looking for possible solutions to my own problem. I started getting crashes near Starlight, a settlement I haven't had an issue with and has been upgraded to its fullest extent for a while now. The thing is, my setup wasn't too different from your Tenpines. Although, there are some differences.

I figure I should leave some of my details here as well, just in case it leads to a discovery.
  • 15 residential plots (exterior) all level 3.
  • 1 recreational plot (exterior) Level 3
  • 4 martial plots (1x1, exterior) all Level 3
  • 4 IR plots (tool and die shop, brewery, mag press, tech salvage)
  • 2 Regular industrial. (A moonshine operation and a chem plant collection?)
  • 4 commercial plots (lvl 3)
  • 4 large agricultural plots, probably going on level 4.
  • Powered by about 1/2 dozen vanilla 10s.
Packs used:
  • Wasteland Venturers 1&2
  • Uituit's Flotsam, Junktown, and Blood Moon Raiders.
  • SS (3in1) and Conqueror.

I'm curious, how long ago did you get your last magazine? Had you collected anything since the first? What about brewing? I had some Grognak Ale ready to be picked up. Doubt these really have anything to do with it, but I figured I would ask. The more info the better.

I should point out that your PC is considerably better than mine (1060/I5) and I am overloaded with mods (about 300), yet I got to level 94 without any noteworthy issues (On my second run, that is. The first run stopped at about level 40 but that was due to other issues with Conqueror). I think it is safe to say that neither your build nor your mod list is at fault. I suspect something small that has gone unnoticed or unreported.
 
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Update: Thought I would record how I fixed my crashes and what may be linked to it.

  • Discovered the first save prior to crash.
  • Visited the crashing settlement and confirmed it is all upgraded.
  • Waited the length of time until the next save, the one that would crash (approx 1 in game day).
  • The only thing that changed in the settlement was a new magazine was issued.
  • Played the game a couple of hours (well past 1 hr real time crash window)
  • Still haven't crashed upon return.
This doesn't prove that the magazines were causing it but it was the only change that occurred in the settlement. There could be more going on but I have no extra insight.

I hope this helps someone.
 
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