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Beth, CTD's, and whatnot - General Questions...

MrCJohn

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Background, it is common for me, to be about 15 to 20 hours into a game... seems after a lot of fighting and such, I get CTD's... various ways - 1) hitting escape to save a game... 2) clicking on the data tab in Pipboy to change quests or see quests, 3) hitting T in pipboy to go to skill tree 4) when I choose items from a dead body (legendary item) - unless I take all the other items first, exit, then re-enter container to grab the legendary item, 5) a legendary item in workbench and if I grab it, CTD... 6) or if I console in a quest item, like mysterious serum - put in container - go grab it, CTD.

I have listed this as general. It has been so long since I just played plain FO4 - is this standard beth?

If not beth, are there known issues (like is it a DEF_UI issue - which I have heard this is caused) ... known trouble mods or mod types that affect vanilla legendary items (I do not generally run any legendary mods - but in either case have tried it - still CTD)

The only thing that seems to work is very softly and slowly press the escape key - trying to be nice... not sure if it is simply a "sudden input" that makes it CTD.

Anyone have thoughts?
John
 
This has to be caused by a mod, or a combination of them.
What state is your save file in by the time you reach 20 hours? Size/script instances/active scripts.
No way it's a vanilla problem as their would be loads of reports of it.
I use DEF_UI and Legendary Crafting Framework and have no CTD issues.
There is no light or sudden keystroke for esc, it's coincidental that you CTD or not by how hard you press it.

Sorry I have no solutions, but maybe eliminating what it's not might help.
 
It this directly after, say a high stress situation or can this happen under say, normal walking/exploring which not much activity on the screen

Fallout suffers from numerious issues, an underpowered engine, mod conflicts etc, so you have to ask youself

1. has it always happened
2. How does my PC, XBox (sorry hard to tell as you dont have that in your profile) or (the fact that I am old and blind i just missed it)
3. Have I tried running a new game, all mods off (back up saves first - guides in vault to help if your not sure) and does it happen then?
4. Am i just a useless annoying devil who just gloats and is a really bad shade of red
5. ignore 4, talking about myself
6. This could be an issue from way back that has baked into a save but only just decided to pop up, i call it the Bethdeath touch.

My opinion is to run it clean with a fresh start (temp though), you can switch everything back on later and return to your previous save
 
My load order mimics BRB Load Order from Nexus... I know he has swapped some mods around... all my games are fresh installs... new games... yes, I have seen vault 111 door open more times than I would want to admit...

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23556

Googling seems to bring up issues with the pip-boy UI ... items in the interface folder.

And just switched over to VIS-G (with it's legendary) from Valdicil's (Legendary Crafting/Mythical)... so there's that. But same issue between the 2 setups ... so there's that 2.

Well, with SS file size is around 20mb ... no file bloat and Resaver only shows "2" instances... clean them and the new saved file CTD's on loading... so I don't consider "2" to be a problem.

I appreciate the generalized background on how to fix mods... after 3000 hours in game, I got that covered. My question was to see if anyone had identified any common mods, new/old, that would cause this.

And I think this is the correct answer:

" This could be an issue from way back that has baked into a save but only just decided to pop up, i call it the Bethdeath touch."

Thanks for the help.

John

EDIT: Probably start eliminating any old mods that haven't been updated in a long time...
 
I did write a peice on old mods as this became a more relevant issue recently. I also stated that when looking at mods, look at the issues/problems and see if:

a) the author has responded or dealt with
b) last time he did

Often a very big issue is, that some move on and others don't, so sometimes do a fresh start up, strip everything out, start again and choose carefully, anything over 6 months old, looks carefully at (don't dismiss though), but some, i.e content adders, the old mod can still be there, but also it can be combined with a new mod - to authors pooling resources into one mod + updating = old/new mod conflicts. One of a large number of examples

The issue is usually down to mods and to be honest, poor choices, or a rush to add as much and get playing, but more time spent choosing could mean more time spent when the game actually works.

However not to say that Bethdeath and its engine doesn't cause some issues/limitations too


FOOTNOTE: lots of people have ideas about mods/mod orders but that doesn't mean its right for you/pc.

Even very simular system can still run/not run the same game, lets just say that if Microsoft and Bethesda had a baby, it would be me, red, evil and hungry for souls :)
 
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Dear Moderators,

I was wondering, if i were to become a $3 patron and if i leave would i still be in the discord

Sincerely,
Meta
 
Since it says whatnot, I'm putting this here.

I've had this problem for a long time. I'll be playing when the game closes without an error message or any warning. I've googled and seen lots of suggestions from an SSD problem, anti virus issue and just a general FA 4 game problem. Does anyone have a suggestion or is it just one of those things that will continue to drive me a bit nuts for years to come?

I got my CyberPowerPC in 2016 and FA4 is the only game that gives me a headache.
 
Background, it is common for me, to be about 15 to 20 hours into a game... seems after a lot of fighting and such, I get CTD's... various ways - 1) hitting escape to save a game... 2) clicking on the data tab in Pipboy to change quests or see quests, 3) hitting T in pipboy to go to skill tree 4) when I choose items from a dead body (legendary item) - unless I take all the other items first, exit, then re-enter container to grab the legendary item, 5) a legendary item in workbench and if I grab it, CTD... 6) or if I console in a quest item, like mysterious serum - put in container - go grab it, CTD.

I have listed this as general. It has been so long since I just played plain FO4 - is this standard beth?

If not beth, are there known issues (like is it a DEF_UI issue - which I have heard this is caused) ... known trouble mods or mod types that affect vanilla legendary items (I do not generally run any legendary mods - but in either case have tried it - still CTD)

The only thing that seems to work is very softly and slowly press the escape key - trying to be nice... not sure if it is simply a "sudden input" that makes it CTD.

Anyone have thoughts?
John


I know this is old, but me and thousands of others had the same problem, and it was never fixed. Most of them just quit playing so the complaints did too. I still run into the exact same thing even only running Sim Settlements mods. I found a program someone reccommended somewhere, Fallrim, that looks for problems in saved games. And my saved games always come up beautifully clean except for on thing..

The number of Scripts running at one time. And SS + conquerors has ALOT. The longer you play, the more there are. (patrols, settlements, upgradings, who knows what else) One save had upwards of 200 scripts running at the same time, causing severe and soul crushing lag anywhere in the game, not just at settlements.

I know everyone here is very defensive of these mods, understandably because they are absolutely amazing if you can get them to work. It basically boils down to how much free time your CPU has to run the scripts. I'm hoping when I upgrade my video card, my CPU load will be much more freed up to handle them.

For me, once i reach the point that Maul wants to have new friends and new yaos, Its becoming unplayable. I want to see so much more....
 
if you can get them to work. It basically boils down to how much free time your CPU has to run the scripts. I'm hoping when I upgrade my video card, my CPU load will be much more freed up to handle them.

"If you can get them to work":

One answer is hardware. However, you are then up against the game engine and your pocket book in terms of what results you can expect.

But I play happily on this here Xbox. Mostly anyways.

So I suspect it also may have to do with how we actually play the game.

Everything, as always, depends.

I think little attention is given, unfortunately, to better habits versus not so good habits.

For example, doing absolutely nothing for a bit when you first enter a settlement is such a good habit. But like all good habits it's not really a habit at all because it's so hard to do.

When you enter a settlement do you stop and wait, doing nothing, while SS and the HUD and the game itself update, giving them time to run everything they need to? Do you do this every time? just sometimes? never? Is the something that most of us even think about?

Or do you immediately open the workshop or get on to whatever you are up to?

This isn't a critique but an honest question about self assessment. I don't do this as much as I should even though I do it quite a bit.

When I'm ready to build something or reassign someone, waiting patiently is a real bummer. And I want immediate results! Last night, I thought for sure I found a bug, but it turned out I just wasn't giving the game time enough to update everything.

My point is when we are hot and heavy building up or managing settlements we have a tendency to make "the loop" going from one to the other, tinkering and changing, and the on to the next as fast as possible. At least, I have this tendency. This is especially a problem for me in the northwest part of the map where I can have five or more settlements up and running by level 20-25. I'll sometimes spend all night running the circuit checkin up on everything.

Doing this, rushing from settlement to settlement, can stack stress on stress when what is needed is to take a breath and let things relax.

At a certain point this is too much too fast for the game to handle. Scripts gonna stack.

I build my characters (survival) to be able to sprint from town to town. I often can get to the middle of town before everything is loaded. I have to fight the urge to open Workshop mode immediately. During assaults, I often get to the meet up point before all the troops spawn in and I have to look away and make myself wait patiently before continuing.

I imagine all this is even worse if you are constantly fast traveling between settlements and even more so if FT is making autosaves right and left.

This is just one habit that can make a difference.

How much crap you keep stored in connected workbenches is another that will only become more and more noticeably as your savegame matures. This gets me every damn time no matter how much I try to change.

Ruling out all the little things we as players do--little things that ultimately can build up to big and negative consequences in the long run--is as hard or harder than saving up for a new, bigger and better CPU.
 
under normal operation you should have anywhere between 4 and maybe 10 active scripts in your fallrim save. if you have more than that, then either you are constrained by your hardware, or, your game is bust. if i recall, you had a machine that was quite underpowered, and you were running conqueror and hitting limits and getting ctd's.
that's not a script issue. its the old quart into a pint pot issue. you can do some things to give the game engine a bit more storage to run scripts and what have you, but eventually you're going to hit hard limits and then you're SOL.
this isn't a fault of the scripts - they are what they are. they run. the number of people who play the game and use these mods show that. the math is indisputable.
 
Yeah Baby!!
Da8X4kV.png


Crashes after about 5 hours if I go down town or come up on a settlement to fast, otherwise it's fine.
 
That’s a lotta leaky scripts. Can you get more detail as to what is leaking?
 
Pack attack.
To be fair, that pic is a month or 2 old. The script clean up has improved with recent updates. Basically it attaches scripts to every npc you encounter plus the extra ones it clones, on top of that with SS npc's persist for longer durations to handle auto-assignment, etc so those scripts stay active which results in the above happening.
 
under normal operation you should have anywhere between 4 and maybe 10 active scripts in your fallrim save. if you have more than that, then either you are constrained by your hardware, or, your game is bust. if i recall, you had a machine that was quite underpowered, and you were running conqueror and hitting limits and getting ctd's.
that's not a script issue. its the old quart into a pint pot issue. you can do some things to give the game engine a bit more storage to run scripts and what have you, but eventually you're going to hit hard limits and then you're SOL.
this isn't a fault of the scripts - they are what they are. they run. the number of people who play the game and use these mods show that. the math is indisputable.

Yah its not as powered as I wish it was, but its medium level processing power, and some decent speed in it, however, My GPU sucks and often borrows from that power to get jobs done. Definitely not ideal. Some computer design friends that own a local business have been giving me some ideas to help it, once money happens, primarily, that's a GPU to carry the graphical load..which is the primary problem even on low. They said once that's handled squarely, the cpu can focus solely on the behind the visuals work and help a great deal.

Freakin pocket book problems. I have a PS4, but I cant stand playing these sorts of games on a controller. Give me the old MMO setup WASD 1234. (I'm told I can still do keyboard and mouse on my ps4, but its our entertainment console in the main living room. If i could hijack that 60 inch baby I would.... full house though and the riot would be real.

A few of the saves had over 200 scripts tryin to run simultaneously, and that was just doing normal vassalization of about 7 or 8 settlements with level 1 cities. Starting over, its running about 15 or so. Which is a lot. My computer isnt top tier, but its no dinosaur either. Shouldnt be -that- bad. However bullrook is likely right, i'm guilty of all those things. I get immersed and charge right in and get to work in a settlement. Waiting is

So...

Very...


Hard....
 
Crashes after about 5 hours if I go down town or come up on a settlement to fast, otherwise it's fine.

Thing is, it shouldn't be crashing though, not even after 5, 6 , whatever hours, I have a save on skyrim with more than 300 active scripts and I've seen worse and I NEVER crash on SE, if I crash, its a crash I can always reproduce , not random crashes related to save bloat , because this mod DOES cause a lot of it, normal saves only take up about 15MB, its size gets DOUBLED as soon as conqueror finishes placing everything / setting things up, may I remind you, I've still have done NOTHING in the game at this point, im barely at the exit of the vault, and I'm already at 34MB for a save, cool, before even touching SS, (which wasn't even a long time ago, I don't have more than 1 year and a half playing sim settlements) my saves would NEVER go beyond 25 megs no and I had a pretty huge load order, and I did had my settlements built up, always, maybe not as overkill as some city plans out there, but they were always all built up with tons of stuff usually, did I get frame dips? ofcourse I did, but I don't ever recall crashing every 20 mintues once I hit the 20+ hour mark, its definitely save bloat, and kinggath has not acknowledged it because plain and simple, he doesn't play the mod that much, he barely has time to develop it and take care of his family, he only plays in a modded instance for an hour tops in his streams, and I don't blame him and I'm not saying he should put more attention to the mod, HOWEVER, in my honest opinion, Mod testers/ Team testers have been VERY dismissive of this issue, blaming the engine, how old it is, bad PCs, etc. But reality is even they crash/ are prone to crash, they just don't play enough time to notice it (because it can take up to 3 hours for me to crash in a session, but I still do) or they just learned to live with it, "meh, a crash every few hours isn't that bad, I can deal with it" Yeah, you can deal with it, it doesn't mean its normal..

Picture for reference, look at the number of saves, too, I only had to make 55 saves in 150 hours + of gameplay, in FO4, I can bunch up up to 300 saves in 150 hours due to how much I need to be saving past the 24 hour mark due to the save bloat issue, either I save every 5 minutes or I lose progress every 20 minutes only to have to start over and do stuff over again.. and again..
 

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What's your point?
You want fully populated settlements that probably took several hundred hours to design, built in a couple of hours, and have all that function together supplying you with mats/food/water, then have a story line built into it with quests that rival anything in the vanilla game, without you having to do a thing other than install it?
All with no impact on your game? Get real will ya.
I have coming up on 6000hrs in game with the majority of those before I started using SS and I absolutely had saves go to shite on me many times long before SS ever touched my hardware, mainly because of things I did while not knowing any better.
I have hundreds of hours into Conqueror between testing and playing, and in all that time I have not had as many problems as you and one or two others seems to have.
You think we don't play enough and are dismissive? I only started this a couple of weeks ago. The playthrough before that was at level 101 and still playable before I abandoned it. These are saves that I upload for KG when I find bugs or things are completely broken in both testing and playthrough so he can replicate and fix them. Then there's the bug reports on the Git we use, then the many, many discord reports and conversations we have. No one is dismissive, but if we can't replicate it then it's hard to fix. How many times do ya want to be told "I can't replicate this"?

Yes you are having problems and you are right to come and report them but your attitude is often pretty shitty. This is not the first time you have slung some snide remarks about.
Few things make me mad, but people coming onto forums and discords of passion projects and shitting on their hard work is one of them.
These are not billions dollar companies with armies of developers, they're small groups of people who pour their hearts and souls into this stuff, all just to see people like you and me download and enjoy their work for nothing other than a thumps up and a few words of thanks and encouragement on a third party website.
Seriously, have a read over your last post and ask yourself what does it actually contribute?
 
Yes you are having problems and you are right to come and report them but your attitude is often pretty shitty. This is not the first time you have slung some snide remarks about.

Really? huh, I think you're being oversensitive here. Refresh my memory perhaps, cause I don't remember being shitty to anyone, not even. I'm just throwing out my experience with the mod and the game in general out there.

I have coming up on 6000hrs in game with the majority of those before I started using SS and I absolutely had saves go to shite on me many times long before SS ever touched my hardware,

I never said no other mods can break the game, or hog the game with a bunch of stuff, but trust me, its never been as unstable as it is with SS, and I'm not even saying that to "shit on it" like you said, I think you're the one who is being rude here, me and many others have this issue and we post about it and all we get is "Yeah, your pc can't handle it" even though I've seen people with minimal load orders with just a few weather mods and clothing mods, that still get crashes, no matter if the cities are at level 1 , 2 , you name it, not giving them actual support and blaming their PCs or their setup IS dismissive indeed.

You don't even need the settlements at max level, all built up, or have a ton of settlers inside, these new playtests I've been doing are on level 1 with population at 40% , and not everything is built, I still see the save bloat, and the CTD are there, is just a matter of time for them to start comming..

Like the guy who was crashing because he had a mod altering mannequin meshes, I wonder what else I cannot use that would cause the game to crash like this, then.. I get that the game is not perfect and the forms clashing with each other will inevitably cause the game to crash at some point, but come on, having a stable game for 3 days only for it to bloat to a unusable state after that? There is no point in progressing through the game then..

and in all that time I have not had as many problems as you and one or two others seems to have.

I understand. It has not been just one or two others though, many people dont even bother reporting their crashes, the fact that this is highly endorsed doesn't mean all those people don't have issues with the mod, most of them just dismiss as a casual crash, or they just don't care enough and move on really.

Few things make me mad, but people coming onto forums and discords of passion projects and shitting on their hard work is one of them.

I am not going to pretend you and I have not crossed paths in the past, but honestly I don't get where you get all these accusations from, the only instance I've had issues with anyone here at all, is when I mentioned a couple of comments that I should have kept for myself about UFO4P (which btw, go read the changelog of UFO4P and their comment page and you tell me if I wasn't right on that post anyway.) and several people jumped at me claiming I was "shitting" on them as well, when in reality all i've practically said was that patch broke something in my game more than once and why I personally don't use it unless I need to, still, the changes they made to the workshop scripts do seem to be essential anyway, so there you have it. Also , honest, an apology if you ever felt I was shitting on anything, that is not my intention yet people seem to think that it is, but I understand, statements get out of context , it wouldn't be the internet otherwise, I can say something with no bad intentions at all but some people still decide to take it as such, that is no longer my fault, sadly.. I'm not here to befriend you, or win your little popularity contest. I only wish to remind you I've never called you names or used strong words against you or never have I mentioned the fact that I don't necessarily like your attitude either, that is something I always reserved for myself, until now, so pretty please with sugar on top, let's just hug it out, cause I'm not here to start any beefs, even if that is what some people seem to think. :rollseye

Seriously, have a read over your last post and ask yourself what does it actually contribute?

I wasn't aware every post I made here had to contribute to something, I thought this was the questions section, where people with problems come to say what they're having trouble with, that's exactly what I did, I'm sorry if it was not just a "Yeah Im having CTD here as well, shitty mod" (which btw if that would have been my comment I would be completely fine with you being angry) but instead I just posted my findings on the bloat issue, what's so wrong about it? Tell me what does this bible of flame towards me actually contribute to? I can ask you the same thing. THIS really is out off topic and is not contributing to anything.

And a final note, I love sim settlements / conqueror, I wouldn't even be playing (or trying to play :P) Fallout 4 if it was not for the later two, I would have just gave up on this excuse for a fallout game a long time ago without them, so I am by no means trying to shit on something here, mate, if I wanted to shit on it, I would have outright act like a troll instead and call names on the mod , but I never ever used any offensive words against it, nor did I ever call it " a shitty mod" so stop placing words in my mouth, I love this mod, and if I come here everyday and might seem like I stand on the side of people that often crash, it's purely because that is the case and its nothing personal against the team, kinggath, or ANYBODY else for that matter mkay? I'm pointing things out because I care about the future of the mod and I'd like for stability to become a priority, too.
 
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i don't think you can compare a skyrim game save with a fallout 4 game save, they are entirely different. i would expect the fallout 4 save game to be considerably larger, especially with conqueror, because while you say you've not done anything in the game yet, which is true - the game world has been massively changed by conqueror and all those changes are logged in your game save.
if you are going to compare for analysis, it has to be a fair comparison. i would suggest that you pair up with any other person, pull down the same mods, and create the same settlements in two different games on two entirely different machines and see what comes out in the wash, including save game size and game stability.
 
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