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Save File Issue - Potential Fix Here

Catallaxis said:
For me, the long save bug did not occur when I only had 1 residential plot built. It was only after the quest Plotting the Future, where I built an agricultural and an industrial plot, when the problem started.

I am on Xbox One X. Chapter 2 is not installed, so it's a base mod or WSFW issue.

Tonight, I am going to lay down the agricultural plot and try to save before making the industrial plot.
Click to expand...
I was suspecting WSFW also because I am getting extreme latency opening WS and longer load times as well. My save time on a new lvl 20 game went up to nearly 3 min after installing version f updates and it seems somewhat random as well. The save file size has stayed consistent across updates for me also.
 
smitty420 said:
It broke everyone's camel, even players that only have SS2, Ch2, WSFW and HUDFW. Mod conflict is always the first suspect but was quickly ruled how. Players that only updated WSFW and never installed Ch2 didn't get the problem. Players that update SS2 to 2.0 but didn't install Ch2 did get the slow saves. Unfortunately that's really nothing to go on and has resulted in random theories, no matter how unlikely, being put to the test one by one. its been about 2 weeks and this is how far we've gotten. Pretty impressive considering it's all being done by independent volunteers and one of them had Covid for part of it.

Also, 97 settlers!? Why would you do that to your PC? What did it do to piss you off so bad?
Click to expand...
Volunteers are the best kind of workers :D we work because we want to, not because we have to. There is a saying in Portuguese "Quem corre por gosto não see cança"... Roughly translates to "Who runs for the joy of it don't get tired".

The covid part completely flew over my head! Whomever it is, I hope you are feeling better! :)

Now for the tests... been running the game for roughly 4 hours, without CTD, without restarts and with less than 5 'long' saves (quotations cause they are all below 5 min... it's a lot of time computer-wise, but in the context, it could be much worse). The most improvement I got was the old trick of getting FO4 out of CPU0, this is just because most applications on windows default to CPU0 (as it would happen with the main thread of FO4). It's counter-intuitive, but giving it one less core actually makes it faster. It has nothing to do with this save problem and it is a hack known since a few weeks after the launch.

As for the papyrus logs, there isn't much I can do with them. SS2 only writes errors and I didn't find a way to put it on debug mode (specifically to get SS2 verbose and log everything... that has to be in the source and I dunno if it is). Most of the errors I'm getting I attribute to this being an old save with several updates to mods during its lifespan.

The VM 'hiding' the save process is driving me crazy! I want to see, line by line, what it is serializing, so when it hangs I can see what is trying (and failing) to do.

I'm not gonna start a new save now, I'm too invested in Chapter 2 story to start all over again, but as soon as I finish it I'll start a new game, with the same modlist, and try to pinpoint when the long save first happens. There are a few long saves that I always had and it has nothing to do with SS2... I play with more enemies and infinite carry weight, the combination of both makes my inventory crazy. For instance, I just finished breaking all my armour and weapons that I wasn't using and still I'm 2164 lbs of crap around. Also, downtown Boston open areas will always take a little longer to save. So the ones I'm trying to catch are the ones that have nothing to do with my inventory and happen specifically inside a settlement. If anyone knows how I can get more from the papyrus please let me know.
 
nosfsos said:
First papyrus report...
Click to expand...
Most of that stuff seems to be due to an object's 3D not being loaded. The code might need more sanity checks.
tons of 'cannot enable a deleted object' on the information icons is not really an error, just a Papyrus warning.
Suspended stacks are more of a concern. The VM ran out of memory so it cached a bunch of stuff. There's a good chance that many of the errors listed are due to suspended stacks. Sometimes waiting will clear out the backlog and other times it won't. You can see supended stacks with Resaver. (think of suspended stacks along the same lines as Windows Virtual Memory but with 100% more Todd)
nosfsos said:
Is there a way to get the VM saving verbose? It's infuriating to only see saving............. saved
Click to expand...
I think you are confusing the Papyrus VM with the game engine. The log will only output data pertaining to scripts.
[12/22/2021 - 09:18:49PM] VM is freezing... The VM is preparing a snapshot to add to the save file
[12/22/2021 - 09:18:49PM] VM is frozen ready to save the snapshot
[12/22/2021 - 09:18:50PM] Saving Game... engine is saving to disk
[12/22/2021 - 09:22:31PM] VM is Thawing... save complete, get VM ready to do work
The big take away here is it took the VM less than a second to get a snapshot ready to save. It most likely means this is not a Papyrus issue.
The other thing is we can see it took ~ 4.5 min. to actually save the game.
nosfsos said:
As for the papyrus logs, there isn't much I can do with them. SS2 only writes errors and I didn't find a way to put it on debug mode (specifically to get SS2 verbose and log everything...
Click to expand...
SS2 is only going to output specifically coded data. You will find those logs here: .My Documents\My Games\Fallout4\Logs\Script\User
nosfsos said:
The VM 'hiding' the save process is driving me crazy! I want to see, line by line, what it is serializing, so when it hangs I can see what is trying (and failing) to do.
Click to expand...
Again this is your misconception of what the VM actually does. What you are looking for would be in the game engine.
 
First of all, thank you for the reply :) it made things much clearer.

msalaba said:
Again this is your misconception of what the VM actually does. What you are looking for would be in the game engine.
Click to expand...
Is it possible to access that information somehow? Maybe using a third party program or something like that? I read on another thread that Kinggath already suspects it is not a script error but an I/O problem. Finding out where the I/O is getting stuck would point to where the SS2 code could be changed to try a different way to serialize.

Is there a program that open save files? I noticed that when it hangs, it stops writing to the file. For instance, my saves are around 60 mb, but when it was hanging on those 4.5min it was only around 22mb. Unfortunately, Todd serialization is in binary (instead of json or something humanly readable). I took a quick look at Fallrim, but I cannot order by serialization, i.e., get the timestamp of each property saved and order by it.

If anyone has any idea on how to approach this I'm all ears :)
 
So I've encountered the long save issue after updating to 2.0.0e and then 2.0.0f which in turn would render my PC useless as I couldn't tab out. I've waited more than 30 minutes every time but no luck.
I just tried this potential fix but the same issue as above, unfortunately.
 
eldiablo said:
Kinggath experienced a longer than usual autosave during last night's stream after placing down his first series of plots with a minimal load order, so I'm betting we'll see a bugfix for this eventually.
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s nice to know this may get more attention now that he has a better way to investigate. I’d think it’s in wsfw myself but there has been minimal changes from the 2.0 update so as long as somebody with better understanding then me has something to figure out I’ll just relax and let it shake out is self.
 
@kinggath Since you asked to @ you if we found more info, here you go.

The first slow save of the play through came just after the first resources generation from an industrial plot. Replicated with 2 different modlist with the same result. Looking at the vod of your lifestream, it seems you slow autosave also only happened after the resources generation.

# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
HUDFramework.esm
XDI.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
Overlays.esm
GCM_DLC_Far_Harbor.esl
GCM_DLC_Automatron.esl
NPCScaling.esm
MutantMenagerie.esm
SS2.esm
SwansBarAndPitstop.esl
SS2_XPAC_Chapter2.esm
DDLL.esl
DamageThresholdFramework.esm
M8r_Item_Tags_Vanilla_EN.esp
M8r_Item_Tags_UFO4P_AWKCR_EN.esp
M8r_Item_Tags_AWKCR_EN.esp
PiperCaitCurieDialogueOverhaul.esp
Unique NPCs - Creatures and Monsters.esp
Ketaros_Treasures.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
clothingoverhaul.esp
More Armor Slots - All Dlc.esp
SS2_XDI Patch-Basic.esp
SS2Extended.esp
SS2WhisperPowerPlots.esp
SS2WalledGardensAndMore.esp
SimSettlements2_AddOnPack_ApocalypticAdditions_SirLach.esp
Scopes.esp
Reasonable Scrapping - AWKCR.esp
Quieter Settlements - Contraptions.esp
Quieter Settlements - Vanilla.esp
Quieter Settlements - Wasteland Workshop.esp
PIP-Pad.esp
NoAffinityCooldown.esp
TheyWantTheD.esp
Loot Detector.esp
JunkTown-FENCES2.esp
GCM.esp
M8rDisablePipboyEffects.esp
XP From Companion Kills.esp
CBBE.esp
BossChestsHaveLegendaries.esp
SS2_LongSaveResearch.esp
SS2AOP_VaultTecTools.esp
Unique NPCs - Creatures and Monsters - AE Patch.esp
SuperMutantRedux.esp
Unique NPCs - Creatures and Monsters_SMR_AE.esp
ClothingOverhaulSP_XB1_PC.esp
Synth Overhaul.esp
Synth Overhaul - Black Patch.esp
Synth Overhaul - No level requirements Patch.esp
Buzz_Axe.esp
RaiderOverhaul.esp
SuperMutantRedux_ArmorSmithExtended.esp
Buzz_Axe_LL.esp
RAW INPUT.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
MoreEnemies.esp
MinutemenPropaganda.esp
MTM-LaserPlasmaWeaponMods.esp
HillsofCorpses.esp
Fixed Alpha Map.esp
[ARR] Hunter Beta.esp
CROSS_CoA.esp
UCO_LegendaryPatch.esp
Classic Combat Armor.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
The Deadly Commonwealth Expansion.esp
TDCE + AE + Raider Overhaul Patch.esp
DT_GunnerOutfitPack.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
Vault4.esp
RecruitableSettlers.esp
WZWildWasteland.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
InstituteSettlements2.esp
Extended weapon mods.esp
Hard Legendary Giant Creatures.esp
NPCScaling_BB.esp
SS2_Addon_Favelabulous.esp
SS2_FDK_TinyLiving.esp
MilitarizedMinutemen.esp
RecruitableSettlersFH.esp
RecruitableSettlersLeaders2.esp
MilitarisedMinutemen_PatchesAddon.esp
WATM-MM-MMUPAIA_CustomPatch.esp
W.A.T.M_MM+PA.esp
BLUE WATM-MilM Patch.esp
Live Dismemberment - Brutal.esp
CraftingFramework.esp
QuickTrade.esp
CraftingFramework_ChipLoot.esp
CraftingFramework_LME.esp
CraftingFramework_MLM.esp
CraftingFrameworkAWKCR2.esp
Mercenary.esp
RansackedRelay.esp
MCNexus.esp
VUWR - AlternativeEdition.esp
DOOMMerged.esp
SS2_BleachersDCStory_Patch.esp
SwanPond - Settlement.esp
SS2HappyTrails.esp
Respawnable Legendary Bosses.esp
SS2WastelandVenturers.esp
SS2_SIMPDDDD.esp
AtomsGloryThreads.esp
[SS2 Addon] SimSettlements SuperStructures.esp
ohSIM_Sim2_Settlements_Scrappers_Addon.esp
RU556.esp
SS2_ruined_simsettlement_addonpack.esp
LD50_Leaders.esp
JunkTownTwo.esp
SS2-PraRandomAddon.esp
RU556Armouryprojectv3.esp
DTFOptionalPlugin.esp
StartMeUp.esp
Perks, companions and items massive overhaul.esp

other than that, the current playthrough is going smooth, with no other bugs or strange behaviours to report.
 
Last edited:
nosfsos said:
... "Quem corre por gosto não see cança"... "Who runs for the joy of it don't get tired".

... The most improvement I got was the old trick of getting FO4 out of CPU0, this is just because most applications on windows default to CPU0 (as it would happen with the main thread of FO4). It's counter-intuitive, but giving it one less core actually makes it faster. It has nothing to do with this save problem and it is a hack known since a few weeks after the launch. ...
Click to expand...
@nosfsos WOW. I googled " getting FO4 out of CPU0 " and came up with nada helpful. Would you be so kind as to point me to a document, yada, that explains this? Obrigado, gracias, toda raba, paciba. :)
 
The longest save ive encountered is maybe...2 minutes. Honestly i cant imagine waiting for 30. I'd count it as a lock up after 5 and just restart the machine.
 
Abbadon70 said:
The longest save ive encountered is maybe...2 minutes. Honestly i cant imagine waiting for 30. I'd count it as a lock up after 5 and just restart the machine.
Click to expand...
no need to restart. If you can't Alt-F4 or use task manager to close it, use ctrl-alt-del and log out. Windows will force-close all programs and you can log back in and keep going, no long restart (or possible unwanted windows update.)
 
EDIT:

I think at least part of the problem is related (somehow) to the virtual resources system. I did some testing:
  • increased the storage (either via industrial plot or storage container)
    • fires a long save. Did it 3 times with 3 triggers. 100% replicable in my save file
  • added resources directly from the inventory
    • fires a long save. Did it 3 times with 3 triggers. 100% replicable in my save file
  • added resources from workbench
    • fires a long save. Did it 3 times with 3 triggers. 100% replicable in my save file
Inconsistencies with my theory:
  • Daily production had no event on save time
    • waited until the production tick triggered, did a quick save with no problems. Slept 24 hours, another production tick triggered and another quicksave with no problems.
  • Expending from virtual resources had no effect on saving time.
    • Turned of paying from workbench and inventory from SS2 options and builder a new residential plot. Chose a plan so it would pay the cost immediately instead of waiting for new settlers to arrive. Resources were spent from the virtual pull. Quicksaved with no problems.
  • A random building design unlock HAD effect and triggered a long save time
    • dropped a quicksave after the unlock just because... triggered long save.

Other unrelated tests:
  • Fast travel from 2 unconnected settlements. Normal save.
  • Accepted a side quest from old paul. Normal save.
  • Completed MQ 4 (I think).... Old Paul and raiders. Normal save.
  • Started MQ 5 and talked to the Albernaties. Normal save

That's it so far... Hope this helps with something. Link to the save: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QTRHK1SNP9K62Dtad4jXlVzzAyetbmm9?usp=sharing


EDIT2:

# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
HUDFramework.esm
XDI.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
Overlays.esm
GCM_DLC_Far_Harbor.esl
GCM_DLC_Automatron.esl
NPCScaling.esm
MutantMenagerie.esm
SS2.esm
SwansBarAndPitstop.esl
SS2_XPAC_Chapter2.esm
DDLL.esl
DamageThresholdFramework.esm
M8r_Item_Tags_Vanilla_EN.esp
M8r_Item_Tags_UFO4P_AWKCR_EN.esp
M8r_Item_Tags_AWKCR_EN.esp
PiperCaitCurieDialogueOverhaul.esp
Unique NPCs - Creatures and Monsters.esp
Ketaros_Treasures.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
clothingoverhaul.esp
More Armor Slots - All Dlc.esp
SS2_XDI Patch-Basic.esp
SS2Extended.esp
SS2WhisperPowerPlots.esp
SS2WalledGardensAndMore.esp
SimSettlements2_AddOnPack_ApocalypticAdditions_SirLach.esp
Scopes.esp
Reasonable Scrapping - AWKCR.esp
Quieter Settlements - Contraptions.esp
Quieter Settlements - Vanilla.es
pQuieter Settlements - Wasteland Workshop.esp
PIP-Pad.esp
NoAffinityCooldown.esp
TheyWantTheD.esp
Loot Detector.esp
JunkTown-FENCES2.esp
GCM.esp
M8rDisablePipboyEffects.esp
XP From Companion Kills.esp
CBBE.esp
BossChestsHaveLegendaries.esp
SS2_LongSaveResearch.esp
SS2AOP_VaultTecTools.esp
Unique NPCs - Creatures and Monsters - AE Patch.esp
SuperMutantRedux.esp
Unique NPCs - Creatures and Monsters_SMR_AE.esp
ClothingOverhaulSP_XB1_PC.esp
Synth Overhaul.esp
Synth Overhaul - Black Patch.esp
Synth Overhaul - No level requirements Patch.esp
Buzz_Axe.esp
RaiderOverhaul.esp
SuperMutantRedux_ArmorSmithExtended.esp
Buzz_Axe_LL.esp
RAW INPUT.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
MoreEnemies.esp
MinutemenPropaganda.esp
MTM-LaserPlasmaWeaponMods.esp
HillsofCorpses.esp
Fixed Alpha Map.esp
[ARR] Hunter Beta.esp
CROSS_CoA.esp
UCO_LegendaryPatch.esp
Classic Combat Armor.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
The Deadly Commonwealth Expansion.esp
TDCE + AE + Raider Overhaul Patch.esp
DT_GunnerOutfitPack.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
Vault4.esp
RecruitableSettlers.esp
WZWildWasteland.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
InstituteSettlements2.esp
Extended weapon mods.esp
Hard Legendary Giant Creatures.esp
NPCScaling_BB.esp
SS2_Addon_Favelabulous.esp
SS2_FDK_TinyLiving.esp
MilitarizedMinutemen.esp
RecruitableSettlersFH.esp
RecruitableSettlersLeaders2.esp
MilitarisedMinutemen_PatchesAddon.esp
WATM-MM-MMUPAIA_CustomPatch.esp
W.A.T.M_MM+PA.esp
BLUE WATM-MilM Patch.esp
Live Dismemberment - Brutal.esp
CraftingFramework.esp
QuickTrade.esp
CraftingFramework_ChipLoot.esp
CraftingFramework_LME.esp
CraftingFramework_MLM.esp
CraftingFrameworkAWKCR2.esp
Mercenary.esp
RansackedRelay.esp
MCNexus.esp
VUWR - AlternativeEdition.esp
DOOMMerged.esp
SS2_BleachersDCStory_Patch.esp
SwanPond - Settlement.esp
SS2HappyTrails.esp
Respawnable Legendary Bosses.esp
SS2WastelandVenturers.esp
SS2_SIMPDDDD.esp
AtomsGloryThreads.esp
[SS2 Addon] SimSettlements SuperStructures.esp
ohSIM_Sim2_Settlements_Scrappers_Addon.esp
RU556.esp
SS2_ruined_simsettlement_addonpack.esp
LD50_Leaders.esp
JunkTownTwo.esp
SS2-PraRandomAddon.esp
RU556Armouryprojectv3.esp
DTFOptionalPlugin.esp
StartMeUp.esp
Perks, companions and items massive overhaul.esp
 
Last edited:
nosfsos said:
Does any1 know at what ingame hour is the production tick?
Click to expand...
I seem to recall that for vanilla it's every 24 hours, based on when you first activated that settlement's workbench. This staggers it out so the entire world isn't generating at once.
 
Torberg said:
I seem to recall that for vanilla it's every 24 hours, based on when you first activated that settlement's workbench. This staggers it out so the entire world isn't generating at once.
Click to expand...
Thank you! In my save is around 11:30 am. Edited the question post with the information gathered :)
 
nosfsos said:
Thank you! In my save is around 11:30 am. Edited the question post with the information gathered :)
Click to expand...
I'm trying to find a cite, so take it with a grain of salt unless someone can confirm it. Also, while I suspect SS2 would hook into the normal production timetable, I don't know.
 
@kinggath

I have not seen the slow saves with my SSD to the magnitude as I started a new game with the latest version of SS2/chapter 2. I am just about ready to power up the beacon to call Jake.

But beyond this, there are a couple other issues I have found and have worked to resolve that may lead to another finger of "truth" in this hunt and to help others...

Survival and autosaves - downloaded Ultimate Survival Mode to enable auto saves so I could disable the autosave after sleeping/resting.
Random crashes - downloaded High FPS Fix and Weapon Debris - considerable improvement and not seen a similar crash
Crashing - when entering into pip-boy (that issue with SS1 long ago... there was a sorting tagging mod that was using up what RAM it needed and crashed)
Long loading times (starting the game) - this occasionally happens, and the next time, it is fast.
Save and exit to desktop - total freeze and can't even using ctrl alt delete - hard reboot of computer (alienware) - haven't had this type of issue in forever.
Exiting game - exit to menu and then exit game instead of desktop is quick and no lockups.
A new mod version of Better Settlement Defence using which I didn't individually test independant of SS2/Chapter 2 - it is workshop framework / F4SE dependant.

My 2 pennies at this time is somewhere in the WSFW and F4SE....

John

PS - I could try this file as perfect spot to do so, but with my SSD I don't really have long save issues.... 15-20 seconds is considerably longer than mostly instant.
 
MrCJohn said:
@kinggath

I have not seen the slow saves with my SSD to the magnitude as I started a new game with the latest version of SS2/chapter 2. I am just about ready to power up the beacon to call Jake.

But beyond this, there are a couple other issues I have found and have worked to resolve that may lead to another finger of "truth" in this hunt and to help others...

Survival and autosaves - downloaded Ultimate Survival Mode to enable auto saves so I could disable the autosave after sleeping/resting.
Random crashes - downloaded High FPS Fix and Weapon Debris - considerable improvement and not seen a similar crash
Crashing - when entering into pip-boy (that issue with SS1 long ago... there was a sorting tagging mod that was using up what RAM it needed and crashed)
Long loading times (starting the game) - this occasionally happens, and the next time, it is fast.
Save and exit to desktop - total freeze and can't even using ctrl alt delete - hard reboot of computer (alienware) - haven't had this type of issue in forever.
Exiting game - exit to menu and then exit game instead of desktop is quick and no lockups.
A new mod version of Better Settlement Defence using which I didn't individually test independant of SS2/Chapter 2 - it is workshop framework / F4SE dependant.

My 2 pennies at this time is somewhere in the WSFW and F4SE....

John

PS - I could try this file as perfect spot to do so, but with my SSD I don't really have long save issues.... 15-20 seconds is considerably longer than mostly instant.
Click to expand...
Just one note on alienware: while yes they make great rigs, their products don't have the best longevity and freezing is one of the first warnings that it's near the end of its life. I've had 2 alienwares and while they did great, for the same money you can get something that will do everything just as well and will last much longer.
 
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