Discussion The Settlement Recovery Procedure

Discussion in 'SS Ongoing Discussion Forum' started by snarkywriter, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. snarkywriter

    snarkywriter Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Vault Librarian

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  2. RayBo

    RayBo Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Support Team Vault Librarian

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    I would add, in my experience, the procedures you laid out are applicable for all Sim Settlements locations. Not just ones using ROTC city plans. The tools used work to a tee with IR - manual sim settlements. The advisory also applies, it will scrap all the things the player has built if the full demo is selected. A superior article "I can't endorse or like the information here with any greater emphasis!"

    A Profoundly Excellent Article! "Spot On!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
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  3. woodfuzzy

    woodfuzzy Probably a Synth or... Verified Builder

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    What he said! ^^^^^^^^ :drinks
     
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  4. MysticDaedra

    MysticDaedra New Member

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    Would you recommend using the PC options for someone who CTDs irregularly when fast traveling to random settlements? Or when dying with a settlement cell loaded? Dying and then getting a CTD when near a settlement is not irregular, it happens every single time for me.
     
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  5. snarkywriter

    snarkywriter Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Vault Librarian

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    Yes, you could start here for the CTD on fast travel issues. You may also want to look into the Performance Options in the wiki here and the holotape performance options here, if you haven't already.

    However, to clarify the second issue, when you approach a settlement your character spontaneously dies, and the game crashes to desktop?
     
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  6. MysticDaedra

    MysticDaedra New Member

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    No, if I die for any reason (not spontaneously) while a SS settlement is loaded, the game CTDs during the loading screen when re-loading the previous save.

    Trying to do Fallrim right now, fingers crossed! Thanks so much for this clear and easy to read guide!

    EDIT: Only 2 unattached instances, and only 2 active scripts, neither of which were "issue" scripts. Save file looks fine, guess it is just something else causing the crashes. I've done all the performance tweaks to SS that I can, doesn't seem to help much. Should I not use the city planner, and just let the planner desk do stuff by default? I've been going in and selecting a city plan, but just the ones that came with RotC, not different ones.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  7. snarkywriter

    snarkywriter Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Vault Librarian

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    Ah, ok.

    Given the above, a couple things could be happening. You could (a) be massively exceeding the build limit in those settlements, (b) have a broken navmesh in those cells that NPCs are trying to path through or spawn on, (c) have a corrupted cell in one or more settlements. Fallrim Tools is excellent, but it can't identify any of these problems, so your save still may not be healthy.

    Most likely, it's (a) massively exceeding the build limit in those settlements. The non-optimized city plans all do this, and have caused issues in the past. It's happened so often, we created another thread in the Educational Vault to address it entitled Understanding CTDs in The Triangle of Death (Sanctuary, Abernathy Farm, and Red Rocket).

    While your issue with CTD on city load or fast travel is a little different, it is likely caused by the same mechanisms described in that article. Fast travelling into a settlement forces the game to load the entire 5x5 grid of cells around your character all at the same time, then to load LOD for the outer ring of visible cells, then run all the update scripts for the settlement, plus any and all relevant OnLocationChange triggered scripts, which is extremely taxing on the engine and your system (this'll make more sense after reading the article).

    You probably want to go through and recover/reset the problem settlements, then use optimized plans and performance options to lower system load.
     
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  8. GladiusVictorius

    GladiusVictorius Active Member

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    I Fix yesterday a Heavy Bugged Save With Red energy Bug and Hangmansally with CTD in the entire Zone.Its real easy i try first the recovery procedure but after the CTD was even worster.
    As i was sure my Save was lost i try to play a little bit around with it and i find out all what you need to do is use Fallrim Tools Load a Save enter the ID of the Settlements in the Search then you will see 2-3 Scrips and 1 Ref line running in that Settlement.Scrips don't touch as they come from Mods (only if you real know in that Settlement there is nothing from that Mod any more then you can cancel it.1 is from your Workshop never touch that if you dont know what do all the orders that you can change there ingame) Cancel now only the ref. Dont Fear Fallout write a new standard one right after you reach the Settlement with all what it need even from your Mods.When you have cancel the ref Save with a NEW NAME!!!! Dont do anything else go in Fallout game load your new save go to the Settlement wait there until the new Ref is write and have Fun with a stable and working Settlement again.
    Things to know:1.You will lost all what is in the Settlement Workbench maybe even what is in Containers but always better then to have a Settlement with CTD
    2.The Settlements is yours all Buildings and Settlers are there and do there Job only on the Moral is 0 (but start direct to recover again in my game after 1 Day it was again at 52)and in the Pipboy you don't see any more the right number of Settlers same as you don't own the Settlement.Fix :You get direct when the new ref is write again a small Quest after you done that you have fixed full the Settlement and all turn to be normal.
    Generally the Settlements are much more Stable with the new ref and i see a good FPS boost and stuttering fix after make a refresh of the Ref.
    I think the entire Problems we have with Fallout are not why we destroy or change some Cell but the Ref to that Cell that get corrupt as it look for item xxx as we change it but in real the item is now YYY so we get CTD or any other Bug.Refreshing the Ref change that as it write all new and so fix all items.location and other things to the right that are actually in game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  9. RayBo

    RayBo Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Support Team Vault Librarian

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    You have some really good points in here. What I like the most that you brought up.
    In a modded game you play
    - the game
    - the game engine “system”
    A lot of problems are resolveable but it depends on a user:
    knowing their game, what they have done and thinking in terms of responsibility for those decisions.
    The process is only a tool, your intelligent use of it’s concepts helped you and I appreciate that you took the time to make a follow up post as it demonstrates thoughts that only that games player “save file user” would know.

    haha, fallrim is a great tool. So are the Sim Settlements tools.

    But they are only fallbacks to good mod discipline and not creating the situation where things get all backed up.

    In most cases there was a trigger that causes the back up.

    Mod removal
    Mod relocation
    An incomplete action or glitched dialogue in some form with a quest NPC, trader or the like.
     
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  10. GladiusVictorius

    GladiusVictorius Active Member

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    Ty :) the thing with the Ref was at some point logical to me as it the first thing we start from that moment when we start to play to change.Vanilla or Modded game.In that moment we start to play Fallout we begin to change something ingame and all get write in the Ref to that Cell.So overtime the Ref have so many change that is logical that there will be some error ( in a new Gameplay we have the same Cell but new ref for that we don't have there the same Errors)when there are to much change.Refreshing or force the game after some point to write the Ref new for that cell so actually to the point where we are really in the game fix most of that errors.
     
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  11. snarkywriter

    snarkywriter Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Vault Librarian

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    First off, great initiative! This could be a long-term fix for some versions of the "corrupt cell" issue. However...

    I'm looking at the vanilla Workshop scripts right now for a project documenting the vanilla mechanics, and I'm not sure of the long-term repurcussions of changing the base workshopID for an already initialized workshop. Basically everything in the various relevant scripts references this variable, which is generated by a script event that runs off of a quest stage. At best, the location will now be considered a newly discovered, unallied settlement in every way, with everything that entails. At worst, it will both leave all of the old workshopID data in your save and cause issues as the workshop update functions iterate through that workshopID and error out, and the disconnected assets on the new workshopID may not register correctly since they weren't location-connected prior to re-completing the settlement acquisiton quest.

    It may be fine, but I couldn't recommend this method to most users without some of the coders (@kinggath in particular) looking at it to verify it won't cause long-term issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  12. kinggath

    kinggath Well-Known Member Staff Member Administrator Moderator Verified Builder

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    It's really hard to say how this would affect things without having access to some of the engine code involved in save files. At first glance, it seems like a sensible thing to do, as you're just deleting the save files knowledge of changes to an object.

    I wouldn't recommend anyone replicating this until he's had a good amount of hours to test the save and make sure nothing is broken.
     
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  13. GladiusVictorius

    GladiusVictorius Active Member

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    I test it from Yesterday with 12 Settlements 8 with SS City's all work fine as you Reset only the Ref and no ID or anything else (The Workshop Script don't get touch).When you load your Save after and visit the Settlement all get Write New with all your Entries for your Mods that affect that settlement Companions.......but for some reason not that what cause the CTD or Bugs.Important is that you make a fresh save in your game as for some reason Fallrim tool have Problems if the Save is older then some Hour's don't know if it the Time change or the Date Change that make this problem.But with a Fresh save that you make short before you make the Fix all Work.I make this Test today on a Full SS Complex City with 31 Settlers and Level 3 + many things i Build and a working Logistic Station after with an Imported real heavy City from Settlements Transfer.Before there was the Red Energy bug and some other like Double Building in the Settlement now all is perfect again and the City work great.All Buildings Work all other Bugs are fixed.Its real stupid but to Fix all Bugs you need to Cancel only that 1 Entry after the game fix all alone.
    To your Settlements you dont lose them but they get a Partial change.You own them and you can do what you want inside them but for your Pipboy you are not the owner.The Final Fix i found it out today is to make all above then Save the game and close it Full after reload the save you will get direct the small Quest same as the first time you get that settlement you make it and after the Pipboy get Fixed and all is same as before with the difference your Settlement is without Bugs and full fixed even from all Problems that have to do with SS.The Workshop Script don't get touch so the entries there remain and that are the entries that are important.All what is inside the ref are all things the Player Change over time doing things and the Bugs and CTD are Ref to things that are no longer ingame or was write wrong from the Ref for some mistake or problem.With this Force Refresh all get Fixed as all old ref get cancel and Write only that what is actually and really in that cell.
    The only Negative thing i see until now are the Settlement Moral as it go to 0 but start after the reload of the game or let pass some time to rise and reach fast the old level.
    That with the items lost or empty Workbench i assume only as i use IDKS Mod that transfer all my stuff direct to my main Settlement.So i never have something in my settlements but i can test that with the next City to Fix.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  14. woodfuzzy

    woodfuzzy Probably a Synth or... Verified Builder

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    Lost me on this...
    Sanctuary and Red Rocket don't have a required unlock quest the player has to complete. For example, kill the enemies.
    The WorkshopParent quest fires upon first entering workshop mode.
    On settlements that require them to be cleared, this would fail as the original enemies are already gone, unless it also respawns them.
     
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  15. GladiusVictorius

    GladiusVictorius Active Member

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    No you get a new Quest same as you get when you own the Settlement the standard Quest.My wife was kidnapped or Mutants are a problem......So no Problem even in Settlements that you get the first time with no Quest.I Fix Yesterday Red Rocked in that way as it was CTD every time i was there and try something to Build,Scrap or pass to long time there.After the fix they ask me to kill xxx i do that and after the Pipboy was Fix.Now red is full fix and i can build Scrap and pass my life there :)
     
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  16. woodfuzzy

    woodfuzzy Probably a Synth or... Verified Builder

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    Okay it's the radiant quests! Got ya.
     
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  17. GladiusVictorius

    GladiusVictorius Active Member

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    You don't lose the settlement it remain yours and you can do all what you want build scrap take the things your settler Produce and so on.The Quest Fix only your Pipboy Map so you see the right number of Settlers on it and you get the settlement back in the Workshop list of the Pipboy.I think its some kind of auto Fix from the game you can run the Settlement without that Quest full normal but at the end you will get always the Quest to make the Final Fix.That with the reload is only to get the Quest direct and Fix the Moral lost.
     
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  18. snarkywriter

    snarkywriter Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Vault Librarian

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    I don't think that's actually true. While you are correct that you didn’t change any of the workshop scripts, you did change one of the values for one of the primary variables the scripts use to do their calculations in a way that wasn't intended.

    Based on what I can tell so far, when you first start Fallout 4, the game saves a list variable called, appropriately enough, “WorkshopMasterList", which includes an array inventively called “Workshops”. This array appears to be empty when you first start a save, and is added to as you take control of settlements.

    From what I see, as you take control of a settlement, WorkshopScript runs a function called InitWorkshopID which appears to create a new workshopID for the settlement. Then, WorkshopParentScript runs an event called OnStageSet that updates the array called “Workshops” by adding the new workshopID and then assigns an instance of WorkshopScript to it. It also sets the settlement to “owned” by you.

    That’s why you had to do the quest. By removing what you did with Fallrim Tools, you forced the game to re-generate a new workshopID for the settlement. This started the process I just detailed over, and you had to re-take the settlement.

    The concern I have is that we don’t know if the engine has any provision to remove the old workshopID from “WorkshopMasterList”. Given what I’ve seen so far of how the various lists are generated in the parts of the code I’ve been looking at and what I know of human nature, I highly doubt it. Once generated, I haven't seen anything that would remove a workshopID. Even if you lose a settlement due to low happiness, it still retains its workshopID. It's just set to “not owned”.

    I worry that most of the daily update functions that the workshop scripts use will iterate through the “Workshops” array and try to run themselves against the old workshopID’s values, as well as the new one.

    In your case, there is possibly a “dummy” (for lack of a better term) workshopID in the “Workshops” array. When any of the daily update functions try to run against the resource numbers for this workshopID… I don’t know what they’ll do. They don’t seem to have been designed with this possibility in mind.

    Like Kinggath said, we need to know more about what information is stored in the save file, and what engine-level error handling or clearing the engine does, before we can say this is an okay thing to do to recover a lost settlement.

    Hopefully that makes sense, and I'm not missing something.
     
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  19. GladiusVictorius

    GladiusVictorius Active Member

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    I understand you and your Point but i check all before and after i make the Fix nothing in the Workshop script was change.The Id is the same all entry's and execute orders are the same.All what i can say until now the Ref was only Write new with only the real Things in the Cell.I think its as im write not the cell or your Workshop get corrupt but your Ref to it get it over time.As i Play anyway i will see over time if i have Problems or all Work fine.until now im Happy that i was able to Fix an Save that was full Broken for to many Bugs with the settlements and no one of the Fix i see around help.In 1 or 2 Weeks i say you if i find some game breaking error or not :)
    By the way you don't have to retake the Settlements it remain yours.As i write the Workshopscript don't get Change and in that is the variable own Settlement on True.Why you get after the Quest i don't know exact but i think its some protection from the game that make Beta to recover or Force some Entrys in the Pipboy as only that is what the Quest fix.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  20. snarkywriter

    snarkywriter Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Vault Librarian

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    Roger that. Good luck!
     

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