Sleep Mode for plots

[VersusXV]

An old idea that really helped me out back when I used to play on Xbox and tried making a skyscraper at Starlight Drive in that started lagging was to use a system of powered objects, switches and logic gates to isolate everything by sectors. It made a massive difference by mainly toggling off unneeded lights(shadow processing) & turrets(AI processing). I'd go from like 10 FPS due to 50-100 lights and about 50 turrets(all required power) to nearly "normal at least for xbox standards" by shutting off everything. Using a terminal I could compare differences instantly.

I wondered if a similar toggle could work for plots and if theoretically it could be tied to proximity in a similar way as object fade and other things tied to draw distance? When not nearby an area or perhaps player could designate specific plots as such it could be in a minimalist state?

Of course on the PC we can handle a lot more but I think a similar technique could potentially help allow for true Mega Cities on PC and possibly for some more city plans out there to be able to work well on the Xbox.

 

[Catallaxis]

Could you do a similar thing by having certain types of plots go to "sleep" at different times of day? For example, stores and job plots go to sleep after work or closing time, while home and leisure plots wake up? If done right, maybe only 60-70% of the plots in a given settlement need to be active at any moment. Or does this already happen? I'm not entirely sure because it has actually been a while since I played with Sim Settlements (just beginning anew now).

You could do something like this by using timed power switches, but it might negatively effect the settlement because it would register as lots of unpowered plots at any given moment.

 

[woodfuzzy]

Why not just toggle the extra lights & clutter off in the holotape.
But I do like the idea of commercial plots shutting down, turning the lights off or maybe just a single "security" light, during closed hours.
Even though that wouldn't help that much. Knowing how to build around the crappy F04 system goes a LOT further. Personally, I rarely place any lights. I mostly use the plots for lighting. And with Darker Nights, they look pretty niffy!

 

[Catallaxis]

Why not just toggle the extra lights & clutter off in the holotape.

Because then you lose the extra lights? I mean, the goal here is to lose as few cool features as possible while still preserving performance.

If half of the plots were in sleep mode at any one moment, then that might cut the number of active lights by half, at least on average. Presumably, this means, all else being equal, that you would be able to run nearly twice as many lights on the plots not in sleep mode while preserving about the same performance. That means you wouldn't need to sacrifice performance to retain cool features.

Moreover, as you note, it could even be seen as a feature. It means you would design your power grid not to fully power all the plots at the same time, but just to meet the actual demand for power at any one moment, because at least, maybe, 30% would be in sleep mode at any one time. Moreover, it kind of makes sense for stores and workplaces to close down and turn off while homes, bars, and leisure plots wake up and light up. Then, in the middle of the night, almost everything would go dark besides security, any public lighting, and maybe utilities.

 

[VersusXV]

I think the lights are only part of the performance "weight" of a plot. Not to say that optimization isn't good already but I think for myself and others given that Fallout 76 likely won't be of interest for us Fallout fans, we're going to want to double down on FO4 especially with Sim Settlements.

When I got over the disappointment about 76 I started thinking about City Plans. I really want to go all out and make a mega city. I think there could be a lot of value for players in this, since it could lead to more options on Xbox for City Plans. for example even my "lightweight" 20 settler Industrial/Robotics outpost at RTB Bunker that I'm working on likely will be too much for Xbox.

Because then you lose the extra lights? I mean, the goal here is to lose as few cool features as possible while still preserving performance.

If half of the plots were in sleep mode at any one moment, then that might cut the number of active lights by half, at least on average. Presumably, this means, all else being equal, that you would be able to run nearly twice as many lights on the plots not in sleep mode while preserving about the same performance. That means you wouldn't need to sacrifice performance to retain cool features.

True and I think there might possibly be script load(Maintenance scripts & stuff? I don't yet know a lot about this) if you have a pretty large number of plots at once. This is probably the other big kicker for consoles next to lighting/shadow processing, due to their weak CPUs

Moreover, as you note, it could even be seen as a feature. It means you would design your power grid not to fully power all the plots at the same time, but just to meet the actual demand for power at any one moment, because at least, maybe, 30% would be in sleep mode at any one time. Moreover, it kind of makes sense for stores and workplaces to close down and turn off while homes, bars, and leisure plots wake up and light up. Then, in the middle of the night, almost everything would go dark besides security, any public lighting, and maybe utilities.

Exactly & I think it makes sense in a futuristic setting for say houses to have sensor to toggle the lighting. A lot of IRL houses have that, lighting that kicks in from sensor.

Perhaps settings could eventually allow for control over this, like a "Power Conservation mode".

Personally, I rarely place any lights. I mostly use the plots for lighting. And with Darker Nights, they look pretty niffy!

Darker Nights looked cool to me but I worried about if it might be heavy on performance?

Even though that wouldn't help that much. Knowing how to build around the crappy F04 system goes a LOT further

I would really love to know of ways to help build around the Fallout 4 system. Any techniques can allow for us to build more, and potentially allow for the Xbox to be able to use more of the mods that get made. This idea is simply the best one I had in mind, from doing experiments on Xbox One Fallout back when I still played there. Anything that helps would be exciting. At my custom settlement I've got like maybe 20% of the space covered but there are small hints of slowdowns already. It's 6 Cells(Spectacle Island is 2 cells) and when I built an elevated platform for it I realized I could probably fit plots for up to 100 settlers in it which would be tons of fun to do.

 

[woodfuzzy]

If you want to build for console users.. then build within the game limitations. Not being a smart ass.. just being honest.
You can build a smooth running mega city in the CK and have 64 employed settlers, which is the game max. (tip you can't do that for every settlement, the game will shit itself.)
But, you have to manually navemesh it & use preferred pathing, room bounds & portals, light boxes and very strict lighting design. Not to mention keeping the fog, mist & animated effects to the absolute minimum.

The biggest problem with building in game is, there are no room bounds. Which means the entire settlement renders even if you can't see it. That candle on the other side of the settlement ya know the one with 30 walls between you... it's being rendered when looking in that direction.
The other problem is workshop objects are 6 sided (they obviously have to be) and all sides are being rendered even if you can't see them. The CK objects (non workshop) are 1 sided... massive performance boost and is why we can have downtown Boston. LOL

Sorry.. rambling! hehehe

Oh, btw, Spectacle Island is 20 cells. And very kool looking build!

 

[VersusXV]

Oh, btw, Spectacle Island is 20 cells. And very kool looking build!

Thanks. Yeah I got hung up on an idea of "wouldn't it be epic if Kinggath could show off a city plan that makes FFXV & stuff look like a joke." And further lampshade F76's no human NPCs. Like maybe a little bit like a CP2077 city.

The other problem is workshop objects are 6 sided (they obviously have to be) and all sides are being rendered even if you can't see them. The CK objects (non workshop) are 1 sided... massive performance boost and is why we can have downtown Boston. LOL

That's a fantastic point. I'm actually thinking about that I will try remaking this in the CK, so that I can SCOL then generate static. Like make my Minutemen HQ be 1 static instead of ~1200 objects, kind of like a plot from Uitiuit Extreme with the sky scraper, giant ship & diamond city plots. And the mall be 1 static rather than ~1750 objects. The entire platform as seen in 1st image would be just 1 static mesh. Plus I'd see if I can swap in any 1 way stuff for at least some of it. Can I make my giant statics into a new precombine/previs if I wanted to? I wonder if further performance improvement could happen from that?

I like using 1 way stuff where possible. I did it on my addon so that it might be useable on Xbox(Wish we could do private release on xbox so that Xbox testers could give it a try). I also tried making the performance scale with level a little bit and it's why I did bother with Level 0. Level 2/3 have mostly 6 sided stuff while level 1 has a mix and level 0 is like a default bethesda 1 way mesh with no interior. A way to get a little bit more performance with my plots is to just revert them to level 1 or even level 0.

You can build a smooth running mega city in the CK and have 64 employed settlers, which is the game max. (tip you can't do that for every settlement, the game will shit itself.)
But, you have to manually navemesh it & use preferred pathing, room bounds & portals, light boxes and very strict lighting design. Not to mention keeping the fog, mist & animated effects to the absolute minimum.

How difficult is it to manually navmesh and etc? Am not yet familiar with (preferred pathing, room bounds & portals, light boxes). Hypothetically, could I make the settlement be 2 workbenches to allow for more(After all it is my own settlement location so I can just edit it if needed) if I wanted?

About settlement edits, would I improve performance if I removed the trees/grass/etc under the platform, maybe flattened the terrain to kind of make it a blank slate? Since it's my own settlement, I could just have separate ESP option for the City Plan. I could make an edited terrain + merged statics as a new precombine for a 2nd ESP and just leave the one there as an option for people who want blank slate with unedited region.

The CK objects (non workshop) are 1 sided... massive performance boost and is why we can have downtown Boston. LOL

Sorry.. rambling! hehehe

Nah it's perfect. Yeah how they did downtown Boston is part of why I want a mega city settlement, I'd say that as well as Novigrad & what CDPR has shown of CP2077. Figured that somehow they found ways to allow for building stuff on that scale.