Suggestion Option to stop settlers eating food from workshop container at all.

[Moonracer3000]

First, I need to explain how vanilla food production works for this to make sense.
So, vanilla settlement farming works like this:
You plant 12 corn and assign 2 settlers to farm said corn. Each corn plant adds 0.5 to food production for the settlement, so 12 plants will provide enough food for 6 settlers.
Every cycle the settlers will place approximately 20% of the corn (let's say 3 corn) into the settlement workshop. This is essentially the vanilla form of taxes. You set up and keep the settlement secure, settlers reward you with a percentage of crop yields and water purification production. The other 80% goes to the settlers for their needs. Without settlers, you can plant 12 corn, wait around and manually pick 12 corn yourself each cycle to get 100% of the crop yield.
Alternately you can double-dip and pick crops that you assign settlers to harvest, but I'd consider that a soft cheat.

WSFW does things differently:
It essentially uses the same workshop calculations, and dumps the same percentage of crops into your workshop container, but then it has settlers eat food out of the workshop container (in addition to the 80% crop yield they keep). So now the settlers are double-dipping.

The problem:
If you have 5 settlers and your settlement has a food production rating of 6 it seems they will still eat food out of your workshop container. I know there is a setting that prevents settlers from eating foods other than crops, but it would be nice to have the option to remove this mechanic in entirety. As someone who created a rather in-depth food crafting mod that requires crops as ingredients, I find myself storing food in separate containers outside of the workshop. Then shuffling food in and out of my inventory to cook. The mechanic seems needlessly complex.

The solution:
Make each settlement's food production value the sole factor for settlers. A food production value of 6 means they produce enough food for 6 settlers. If their food production is higher than the number of settlers in that settlement they can export food to another settlement. If their food production is lower than their population and no other settlement can supply them with food, their happiness goes down. A simple system that doesn't affect a player's items.

Optional:
Add a setting that changes the crop and water yield sent to the workshop container. The vanilla setting is quite high (I forget the exact percentage). Being able to adjust it from say: 20% down to 10% without directly editing the workshop files or leveled lists might be nice for adjusting the balance here.

 

[Whisper]

Your calculations are off. A settler can tend to crops with a total yield of 6 food. A single corn plant is 0.5 food, so 1 settler can tend 12 corn plants - or some combination of plants totalling 6 food.

Having 2 settlers will not produce more food unless another 12 corn or other plants are planted.

For more information on how the vanilla system works, read this: https://simsettlements.com/site/ind...t-4-workshop-mechanics-guide.7738/#post-56204

In particular, please note the capped food/water production. Essentially after a certain point settlers will not produce more food and machines will not produce more water. Only a mod (like Uncapped Settlement Surplus) can change this.

Also note that the vanilla workshop mechanic “staggers” the production of food/water, so as not to overwhelm the game engine when 1000 plants and 10 large water purifiers would be due to drop 500 food and 400 water into the workshop system all at once. WSFW does not alter that mechanic.

 

[Moonracer3000]

Interesting, I always thought settlers were capped by number of plants. Point taken.

The problem still exists though. This doesn't change the fact that when using WSFW settlers eat food out of the workshop container. If you need crops for player use you need to devote a high percentage of settlers to farming and/or store produce in a container outside of your workshop for personal use.

In vanilla FO4 this is not an issue (though it's far too easy to accumulate large amounts of food and water).

 

[Whisper]

I'll admit to not having done the experimentation - and being a bit busy at the moment to do it myself.

You seem to have dug into it quite deeply. Can you make it replicable with a minimum load-order and several attempts, tabulating the results?

It would require some time and mucking around. I'm thinking of 3 tests with this set of mods:

• HUD Framework
• WSFW
• SS2
• WS+
• F4SE

Another 3 tests with this set of mods:

• HUD Framework
• WSFW
• WS+
• F4SE

And finally another 3 tests with no mods at all (use godmode to plant/build things).

Start at the mirror, go to Sanctuary, and see how things go. Use tmm 1 to make all settlements visible and fast-travel to Warwick - go have a cup of coffee - and fast-travel back, then another cup of coffee. See what the results are.

Yes, I know it will take time and be kinda boring. That kind of solid info would give Kinggath something to look into though, an idea of what to focus on and where it might be happening.

 

[Moonracer3000]

Here's the best data I could come up with through testing:
I created near identical settlements in 4 locations (6 food [12 corn plants], 12 water, 32 defense, sheltered beds as a base standard). I emptied each workbench and placed 10 carrots inside. I tweaked each settlement to have more or less food production than the number of settlers. So one might have 2 settlers and 1 food production, another might have 1 settler and 6 food production. After building these I let the game play until the total time was about 1 hour 15 minutes.

In the vanilla Fo4 run I noticed that settlers would eat the carrots (remove them from workshop) only if the settlement food production was lower than the population. In a run with fo4se, HUDfw, wsfw, ws+ settlers were eating carrots out of the workshop regardless of whether food production was higher than the population. This isn't something I'm 100% sure of because it seems that vanilla workshop scripts add items to workshop about 20 minutes ealier than WSFW when first setting up a settlement, so settlers might have eaten the carrots because a script could have called for a check on food before another script placed food into the workshop.

Less useful data:
I spent a good chunk of the day running various test with vanilla and modded builds like you suggested. Unfortunately this is more problematic to test because the time between cycles where either vanilla workshop or WSFW add or remove items from the workshop inventory is too high to get more than one cycle reliably. I tried waiting 10 minutes, traveling to Warwick, waiting 10 minutes, returning to Sanctuary, then waiting another 10 minutes with no changes. I tried sleeping in a bed for a couple days but I suspect I'd need to actively play or let the game run for 5-10 hours to get better data (for each test).

WSFW does seem to add crops to the workshop inventory on a 1:1 ratio (6 food production, 6 corn added to the workshop). Vanilla fallout was 6 food production, 2 food added to the workshop. So I can only guess that the rate at which WSFW removes food items from workshop inventories is set high to not flood the workshop with food 3 times faster than vanilla. This rate might just need to be adjusted?

Other possible factors:
In vanilla if you have more than one type of crop in a settlement that can reduce what is placed in the workshop inventory. Meaning it's better to have 12 corn instead of 2 corn, 2 tatos, 2 carrots, etc. since the way calculations are done you might not as many food items added to the workshop (even though settlement food production is the same value). I don't know how WSFW handles this situation. Sim settlement plots can also play a part in this if you don't select what plot type you might have 3 farm plots of different types.

Linked settlements might play a part here if a settlement with high food production is connected to one with low food production. Though I tested and a linked settlement with low production still gives a warning in the pip-boy data menu (as well as the settlement HUD). Not something I would have missed in past play throughs unless food and water is being manipulated between linked settlements even if they all have higher food and water production than their populations require.

Future testing:
There are some mods I'm looking to test that aren't very invasive or settlement related so I'll try creating some test settlements on a longer playthrough and come back if anything more substantial is revealed. I've seen other people comment on this issue (typically survival players) but it's very rare. I think it has more to do with playstyle. I tend to play with my own balance mods that reduce loot and make crafting food more important, so it's just something I notice more.

 

[Moonracer3000]

Okay, more data using FO4SE, HUDFW, WSFW, WS+ on a more long term basis. I've set up multiple settlements with fixed settings and played about 5 and 1/2 hours (lots of quick traveling and actual playing), checking in on progress but not altering the workshop inventory. Some settlements didn't get set up until later so their hours of operation are listed. None of these settlements are linked to others.

Sanctuary: 3 settlers, 6 food, 40 water production for 5 hours/10 days= 13 gourd, 4 water *[3/7].
Red Rocket: 2 setters, 2 food, 3 water production for 5 hours/10days= 0 carrot, 2 water *[0/2].
Starlight: 9 settlers, 12 food, 15 water production for 2 hours/5days= 1 corn, 7 water *[4/6].
Sunshine Tiding: 2 settlers, 4 food, 9 water production for 4 hours/8days= 14 tato, 6 water *[14/7].
Outpost Zimonja: 3 settlers, 12 food, 6 water production for 4 hours/8days= 16 carrot, 4 water *[14/3].
Hangman Alley: 3 settlers, 12 food, 12 water production for 3 hours/6-7 days= 16 tato, 3 water *[16/5].

*the bracketed numbers are food/water counts after an additional 5 in game days. This time period was passed in about an hour of game play. Sleep, wait in settlement a few minutes, quicktravel to another settlement, repeat.

It seems especially clear that water production doesn't scale well. Sanctuary was producing 13 times the water needed for the settlement but the difference in water added to the workshop is zero (I actually noticed it go down to 3 during one visit).

Food production seems static after a while (difference between 2 hours and 5 was very little when checking in), and it's important to note that most of these settlements are at twice or more their required production, which is probably not the norm.

I tried a larger scale settlement at Starlight late in the run as I'm curious how production scales, but it's much too early to get a solid comparison. It does suggest some impact. Starlight food production is +3 over it's population and so is Outpost Zimonja but the difference in what is added to the workshop is quite high. Though lifespan difference of each settlement can't be ignored.

 

[Whisper]

I know it’s late to ask this - can you tell us ingame days? “Hours” unfortunately doesn’t give us an indication of how many times the production has triggered.

 

[Moonracer3000]

Okay, I edited my previous post with days passed. It should be fairly accurate and represent the number of days a settlement being set up to the workshop inventory being recorded. Also, a second data recording after another 5 in-game days have passed. I hope that helps.

 

[Moonracer3000]

In case anyone else has the same issue, I made a work around mod a while back:
"LunarFalloutOverhaulIncreasedProduction" (in optional files section) basically doubles food output in the settlement leveled lists and seems to make food production drops in workbenches close to vanilla while using SS2. I used it in at least one playthrough and liked the results.

 

[Lynna]

In case anyone else has the same issue, I made a work around mod a while back:
"LunarFalloutOverhaulIncreasedProduction" (in optional files section) basically doubles food output in the settlement leveled lists and seems to make food production drops in workbenches close to vanilla while using SS2. I used it in at least one playthrough and liked the results.

I was just looking for a solution to this very problem. Thank you very much!