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Question More assignment issues: Guard auto-assignment in Vassals sometimes switches them to Workers (4.1.1)

tot3sch

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When I arrive in a vassal, which forces some auto-assignment to run, some of the guards present get auto-role-changed to workers on occasion.

I have observed cases where they got automatically switched back to guards on the same visit, and cases where the switch to worker stayed in place.

All this is happening in vassals where all non-martial plots are actually owned by civilians, so there are no non-martial plots these former guard workers could assign to, and they actually stay assigned to martial even when they become workers.

I have never seen cases where all the guards get changed, it's always just a few of them.

Can anyone confirm this glitch?

EDIT: I believe this might be somehow related to the 'martial plots getting unassigned on return issue' in vassals. But I also do believe this particular part of the issue is new after the latest update.
 
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New findings about this issue:
In one of my vassals I just had 3 of my guards changed to workers, which ended up in different states: One of them actually had the worker role showing on mouse over, and I could manually revert her to guard. The other 2 were only shown as worker in the Outpost HUD, but did not have the role prompt showing up when I tried to talk to them. One of these 2 even refused to be workshop-assigned to vanilla defense or a martial plot, but he last one I was able to manually assign.
This seems to have triggered the auto-assign code again, because after a while things went back to normal: 5 guards shown in the HUD, all 5 actually named correctly and showing the role prompt.

I guess this glitch happens only if the auto-assign script running when visiting a vassal gets stuck at some point, and the glitched out guards can be recovered (which makes this glitch just a mild annoyance).
 
New findings about this issue:
In one of my vassals I just had 3 of my guards changed to workers, which ended up in different states: One of them actually had the worker role showing on mouse over, and I could manually revert her to guard. The other 2 were only shown as worker in the Outpost HUD, but did not have the role prompt showing up when I tried to talk to them. One of these 2 even refused to be workshop-assigned to vanilla defense or a martial plot, but he last one I was able to manually assign.
This seems to have triggered the auto-assign code again, because after a while things went back to normal: 5 guards shown in the HUD, all 5 actually named correctly and showing the role prompt.

I guess this glitch happens only if the auto-assign script running when visiting a vassal gets stuck at some point, and the glitched out guards can be recovered (which makes this glitch just a mild annoyance).
You have the faction jobs in vassals desactivate beacuse if you have it off is supposed what raiders only can be guards
 
Thanks for the tip!
Turns out, I had Faction Jobs in Vassals turned ON in MCM, but it was showing as OFF in the holotape. Setting it to ON in the holotape changed the setting to OFF in MCM.
So I guess the setting is reversed in one of them.

Anyway, I changed the setting to the opposite I had so far and will see if this fixes things...

EDIT: Changing this setting has not alleviated this problem. Some guards still get auto-changed to workers on occasion, even though the DON'T get assigned to any non-martial plots. They end up as unemployed workers. Sometimes they show the "worker" prompt and can easily be changed to guard again, sometimes they lack the prompt and then need to be workshop-assigned to a vanilla guard post or martial plot to become guards again, which in turn then restores their role prompt also.
 
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I got lazy and didn't do a 'wait in interior cell for zero scripts running' save in a while, so when I finally got around to do that again I was shocked I had a bunch of scripts running which at first did not seem to finish at all. Knowing my system is prone to script lag, I am used to sometimes having to wait a couple of minutes for things to catch up. But this looked much worse. To see if the game would recover I waited it out:

I had 7 instances of the "SimSettlementsConqueror:SoldierManager" script running, which took close to an hour sitting in an interior cell to finish.
I definitely did NOT have this problem yesterday. So this issue must have been introduced today. All I can think of as a possible causes is me changing one setting as described above, because everything else I did was normal gameplay, like progressing the quest lines, having 3 or 4 hostile takeover attempts at Taffington and taking a pre-built County Crossing as another outpost.

I'm confused right now and will do more tests (and I'm mentally prepared to roll back many hours ^^)
 
Having the same issue with the MCM saying off and holotape saying on, gonna try uninstalling MCM as i don't believe any mods I'm using have to have it and see if guards will work guard spots later. Can you explain the need to 'wait in interior cell for zero scripts running save? Are you using commands to see what scripts are running?
 
Can you explain the need to 'wait in interior cell for zero scripts running save? Are you using commands to see what scripts are running?

No, I move to an interior cell, wait a couple of minutes, make a save file manually, and then check this in Fallrim Tools. I started doing this months ago, checking for unattached script instances, when I was struggling with constant CTDs and corrupted save files, and have since discovered I can also use this method to check which scripts are running the moment I make a save.
I've to admit that I don't really know what I'm doing, so it's a lot of guess work on my end.

I believe I originally got inspired to do this by this thread: https://www.simsettlements.com/site...asing-the-chances-of-a-smooth-game-play.8309/ where you will find more information about this...
 
I looked at Fallrim Tools and from what little research I've done everyone is saying the same thing, with FO4 unattached script instances are a normal part of game operations and not necessarily indicative of mod being improperly removed. I have 26 in all the saves I've looked at. Till I know more about them I'm weary of cleaning anything.
 
On the other hand it is beginning to appear that I am hitting some game breaking bugs/conflicts (IMO) dealing with scripts, ie. needing a 15 man crew just to control two vassals not capable of supporting itself. It creates a huge deficit making growth nearly impossible. I did start a new game and found only the f4se unattached script. So hell most of my issues for all I know is as simple as my inability to use vortex correctly.
 
I don't have this bug before. But since 4.1.1 and 4.1.1a I have guards in vassals auto assigned as worker. They are not all assigned as workers, some are guards and some are workers. My settings are consistent in both the MCM menu and the holotape.
 
After some days off due to work I picked up my game at a much earlier state (did a rollback).
I disregard MCM for the time being and use the holotape to adjust Conqueror settings exclusively.

With "Faction Guards in Vassals: On", "Faction Jobs in Vassals: Off" and "Auto-Change Roles: Off" I get the best results in my vassals, at least for my personal play style:
  • Guards assigned to vassals stay guards. (With "Auto-Change Roles: On" they sometimes get changed to workers, even if there are no unoccupied non-martial plots available)
  • Only guards work martial plots.
  • Guards still get un-assigned from martial plots shortly after I arrive at a vassal (all the flags go down and defense drops). Depending on the vassal (and associated script lag, I guess) they sometimes get auto-reassigned to martial, and sometimes I need to fix that manually. Because of this I try to stay away from properly set up vassals for the time being.
 
With "Faction Guards in Vassals: On", "Faction Jobs in Vassals: Off" and "Auto-Change Roles: Off" I get the best results in my vassals

I'll second this.

"Auto-Change Roles:off" seems to me to be the sweet spot. Fewer surprises. What's the worst that could happen? Warriors assigned to guard plots in Outposts don't automatically get turned to "guards" and warriors assigned to commercial/ag/industrial plots in outposts won't get the "worker" production bonus until/unless you manually switch them.

In the meantime, you are never surprised that all your warriors have been re-roled and aren't available to launch assaults.
 
I'll second this.

"Auto-Change Roles:off" seems to me to be the sweet spot. Fewer surprises. What's the worst that could happen? Warriors assigned to guard plots in Outposts don't automatically get turned to "guards" and warriors assigned to commercial/ag/industrial plots in outposts won't get the "worker" production bonus until/unless you manually switch them.

In the meantime, you are never surprised that all your warriors have been re-roled and aren't available to launch assaults.

I'm using the same settings now. Much easier to manage.

What's the difference of having the guard tower type martial plots manned by "guards" instead of "warriors"? The control bar is almost always fully filled in an outpost anyway. And having them assigned as guards means fewer people to launch an assault?

What about the functional type martial plots like the armory or the field hospital? Auto-change roles previously assign them as "guards", but with the new patch everyone is assigned as worker. What role should it be? Does it matter what kind of role is assigned when it comes to the function of these martial plots? I mean if I assign a warrior to a field hospital without change it to "guard" or "worker" do I get a reduction of the possibility of saving a warrior in an assault (assuming that warrior doesn't join the assault and stay assigned to the plot during the assault)
 
The control bar is almost always fully filled in an outpost anyway. And having them assigned as guards means fewer people to launch an assault?

Yes!

Control is much easier in outposts or should be just based on sheer number of forces.

I always change vanilla guard post "guards" back to warriors. They'll still give you defense and it gives them something to do. They'll leave their posts to go on raids should you need them to and hopefully comeback to their post ranked up and not dead.

In the beginning of Phase 2, I had way too many guards at guard posts basically doing nothing but padding my workshop defense numbers. Re-roling these to back to warriors was my first aha! moment.

Does it matter what kind of role is assigned when it comes to the function of these martial plots?

This is a great question. I don't exactly know the answer. But it has seemed to me that the answer is a hard maybe. I changed my Armory, FH, and POW guards to warriors and back while I was trying to get a handle on everything.

I changed them to Warriors if I needed to increase/ maintain my Warrior (66%) to other roles (33%) ratio. As I eventually was able to recruit more warriors, I changed those working these plots back to guards. As guards, they won't go on raids and risk getting killed outside the post. So, these plots are continuously worked, so to speak.

Early on I will still do this switching of roles. Maintaining a high "warrior" count is extremely beneficial for Control purposes (more warriors=more effective patrols) and for morale. But it is hard to do so until you get to the point where you can start recruiting.

I couldn't figure out early on if the Body Snatcher plot was working. Ultimately, I decided it didn't work unless a "guard" was working it. This is based solely on the fact that when I had a "warrior" assigned to it, the bodies and loot seemed to not get picked up, but when I switched the role to "Guard"--stuff started showing up in the workbench after attacks! This, however, is just anecdote, not science! Reader beware.

The armory always seemed to be working regardless of whether it was worked by a Warrior or Guard. And the Field Hospital seemed too important to mess with. So I've mostly kept it worked by a "guard", just in case.

There is never any benefit to having a "worker" at a martial plot. That's just one less warrior needlessly without any guard's benefit: I believe you fail a Defend quest automatically if there are no "guards." (Maybe that's just in Vassals) But if so, you want at least one. But how many "guards" you actually need depends on how much you trust your warriors to defend your outpost, I suppose.

Now, whether it is more beneficial to for a worker or a warrior to work a job plot can depend on your situation. Generally, you want a worker assigned to Commercial/Ag/Industrials in your Outpost: they get a W/R/E production bonus.

But if you find yourself short on warriors, you might need to forgo the production bonus and switch their roles from worker to warrior for a time.

In general, I try to adhere to the 66/33 ratio as much as possible. It seems to play the biggest role in Outpost morale. The highest morale production bonus (five up arrows) is 100%: this is always too good to pass up. Once I get needs met and can start beefing up my forces, then I'll worry if I can squeeze a little more production out of my plots by changing a role or two.

One last thing about workers in Outposts. Too many is a trap! Every worker gives you a production bonus if they are working the right plot--but the cost is one less warrior.

It's always better to maintain the bulk of your production in vassals. More warriors at your outposts (even doing nothing!) will help maintain the extra control you need to do so (patrols are more effective the more warriors you have.)

I started with twenty recruits: Three guards on Conqueror Plots like the Field Hospital. It took 4 patrols to keep my first vassal under total control. One worker on an Industrial and one at a commercial plot. That's nine recruits who aren't warriors anymore. I'm below the right ratio! and only have 11 recruits available for the next raid.

This is why I switched a few guards and one of the workers back over to warrior.
 
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