"Long Save File" - Fix Attempt 2 - Public Beta

[kinggath]

Debunked. This did not fix the issue, we'll keep searching! Thanks for testing it out folks.



------------------------
The long save file issue, is a very strange one, and so I'm going to start trying strange things to attempt to address it.

Since the issue is also sporadic, I'm going to need help testing these weird fixes to see if we're making any headway. So whenever I have an idea, I'll make a post like this, post a public file with some files you can overwrite your existing with to see if they have an impact.

Tests to do with replacement files:

• Try with existing saves that have had the issue already, to see if the long saves continue to trigger
• Try with a save that has never seen the 2.0.0 patch of SS2. Perhaps a quick start save from Nexus.

Doing both tests is important, as it's possible that the issue, once fixed may not work retroactively on existing saves. Really hard to tell right now as we're in unknown territory.

---- Removed link as this change will be part of patch 2.0.0i, it didn't have the intended effect of fixing things, but didn't hurt anything either.

Let me know what you guys experience!

-kinggath

 

[kinggath]

For the tech-minded, curious about what I did:

The CK won't let you compile scripts with names over a certain length, yet we somehow managed to compile 3 beyond the allowed limit. Likely with some external compiler. So I've renamed all those script files to get them under the allowed limit.

My thinking is that perhaps when the game encounters something it needs to save that has one of these long script names, it hits some sort of limit during the write sequence and causes a loop. Likely they have some protections in their save-writing code to avoid infinite loops, that limit gets hit, and then the save finally completes.

The reasons for my theories are based on the following:

- We've seen the CK crash from long string names.

- All of the long script names were part of the 2.0.0 patch of SS2, so they'd still be present without Chapter 2 installed.

- This issue can be dramatically different depending on the quality of hardware folks have, but it doesn't seem to be tied to hard drive speed, as I've seen folks with NVMe drives report longer save times than some folks with SSD or SATA drives.

- The save files that took a while are not particularly bloated compared to saves that went quick for same users. I've even some of them slightly smaller than the save before.

The latter two points make me think the issue is with the engine's ability to prep the save data, rather than the actual writing. Which is why I'm now seeking out esm related issues or other oddities in the way the mod is set up that have changed since the 2.0.0 patch.

 

[Lowjax]

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, is this meant to replace SS2 main file? With or without chapter 2, does it matter?

 

[Reaktorbot]

The archieve containes esm for SS2 and SS2 chapter 2, so i assume you install it on top of SS2 and SS2 chapter to as an override.

 

[msalaba]

The CK won't let you compile scripts with names over a certain length, yet we somehow managed to compile 3 beyond the allowed limit. Likely with some external compiler. So I've renamed all those script files to get them under the allowed limit.

That is some interesting Toddery right there! It does bring a few questions to mind that would add to the knowledge base.

1. What is the maximum name length?
2. Is the namespace included in this max length?
3. Is there a max length for function names? <- I have not been able to answer this question with my meager google-fu.

It does sound like using the vanilla compiler will tell me if I have exceeded these limits.

 

[kinggath]

That is some interesting Toddery right there! It does bring a few questions to mind that would add to the knowledge base.

1. What is the maximum name length?
2. Is the namespace included in this max length?
3. Is there a max length for function names? <- I have not been able to answer this question with my meager google-fu.

It does sound like using the vanilla compiler will tell me if I have exceeded these limits.

1. I'm not exactly sure, it just gives you a generic warning saying you have invalid characters or too long a name. The CK crash limit is 99 characters, so I used that as my new limit.
2. Yes.
3. I don't believe so.

 

[eldiablo]

Try with existing saves that have had the issue already, to see if the long saves continue to trigger

Took a bit of exploring around Sanctuary, but I eventually got a long save with the beta files on a current playthrough. About a minute long. Using a SSD. Haven't tried a new game yet, but I'll give it a shot here soon.

Edit: Started new game. Cheated quests and plots. Placed down industrial, agricultural, and residential plot. Assigned Paul and Lily. Made console saves about 1 minute apart 3 times. On the third save, longer save than previous occurred. Waited a few minutes. Made 3 more console saves about a minute apart. Third save resulted in long save. Doubt it has anything to do with my save frequency...just whatever is causing the long saves shows up again eventually when doing stuff in settlement areas with plots. At least for me.

Off topic, but these scripts started showing up after I used a crafting lab in the HQ. They haven't gone away. Even after being outside of the HQ for some time. Not sure if this is intended? The crafting stations had a weird lag to them when first activating, so I stopped trying to use them. Possibly a mod conflict as I'm using ECO...dunno though. First time seeing this script.

 

[Lowjax]

Don't suppose anyone can tell me what I did wrong here?
From a save, uninstalled SS2 and Chapter 2, and this is what I've got.

On the other hand, so far, no slow saves even going into workshop, building plots and stuff. Autosave, quick save, exit save with no issue.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Don't suppose anyone can tell me what I did wrong here?
From a save, uninstalled SS2 and Chapter 2, and this is what I've got.

On the other hand, so far, no slow saves even going into workshop, building plots and stuff. Autosave, quick save, exit save with no issue.

That looks like the "can't find a texture Default Colour" to me. Do you still have the .ba2 files for the mod in the Data directory?

 

[Lowjax]

That looks like the "can't find a texture Default Colour" to me. Do you still have the .ba2 files for the mod in the Data directory?

Got it, thank you.
Seriously, "SS2 - Textures.ba2" contained the textures, who knew?
I was wondering how they made this so small, for some reason "not including stuff you already have" just never occurred to me.

 

[Henrika]

I haven't had long save times at all since restarting SS2 from the beginning, but recently I find that whenever I fast travel away from a very well built(20+ plots) Sanctuary while a plot is in the middle of being assigned(no building animation), the auto-save time gets really long. I've tried duplicating this issue with very consistent success. I wonder if exiting a big town has any impact to contributing the long save time?

 

[tate1066]

I haven't had long save times at all since restarting SS2 from the beginning, but....

In my case, the long saves started arround the time Jake introduced the commercial, martial, etc ASAMs(to a Sanctuary with 20+ plots), before that all saves were quick and no trouble with fast-travel, but since then I have got the long saves. Not always, but I believe them to be increasing in frequency.

 

[abaris]

In my case, the long saves started arround the time Jake introduced the commercial, martial, etc ASAMs(to a Sanctuary with 20+ plots), before that all saves were quick and no trouble with fast-travel, but since then I have got the long saves. Not always, but I believe them to be increasing in frequency.

I had them the moment I laid down any plots. Not always, mind you, but on occasion the save takes several minutes, wether it's three or four plots or 20+. And it doesn't always happen in settlements. The Ron's office at his role in chapter 2 produced a very long one as did the entrance to vault 75. Autosaves seem to be the longest ones.

 

[MoonShadow]

Hi, new start with your patch, after building the first industrial plot in Sanctuary the first save took about 20 seconds, however after that one long save the save times seem to have gone back to normal (around a second). Built more plots and still the save times have stayed fast. Perhaps there was something in the long save that once processed is not re-calculated for the save?

 

[Mystical Panda]

That is some interesting Toddery right there! It does bring a few questions to mind that would add to the knowledge base.

1. What is the maximum name length?
2. Is the namespace included in this max length?
3. Is there a max length for function names? <- I have not been able to answer this question with my meager google-fu.

It does sound like using the vanilla compiler will tell me if I have exceeded these limits.

1. I'm not exactly sure, it just gives you a generic warning saying you have invalid characters or too long a name. The CK crash limit is 99 characters, so I used that as my new limit.
2. Yes.
3. I don't believe so.

Did anyone check and see if the 'long' script names are partially or completely represented, name wise, in the "Scripts" (active, or suspended) section of the game save? I'll can also check here- what's the script names that were too long?

 

[Mystical Panda]

I'll be in and out till tuesday with RL stuff, but here's a direction I'm thinking atm...

If I'm getting stack dumps but the papyrus profiler doesn't show the stack going over it's set limit (default 100 I think), would that imply that something has 'jammed up' the VM? like a hung, or 'contentious' script? So it's starting to dump what it can no longer 'stack' to run?

Someone posted that it started when they built SS2 storage, which could be due 'arbitration' issues (or just too many) with various scripts firing off at the same time for different plots trying to access and shared the workbench storage, or npcs trying to access it to build.

Also, on a long-shot... was diseases new to SS2 2.0.0? Which is where it was reported to start? Is there a way to completely disable that if it scans npcs, etc.,.? Sorry if that's been already answered, kinda rushed atm but I'll be able to post more information in a few days.

 

[Lowjax]

Debunked. This did not fix the issue, we'll keep searching! Thanks for testing it out folks.



------------------------
The long save file issue, is a very strange one, and so I'm going to start trying strange things to attempt to address it.

Since the issue is also sporadic, I'm going to need help testing these weird fixes to see if we're making any headway. So whenever I have an idea, I'll make a post like this, post a public file with some files you can overwrite your existing with to see if they have an impact.

Tests to do with replacement files:

• Try with existing saves that have had the issue already, to see if the long saves continue to trigger
• Try with a save that has never seen the 2.0.0 patch of SS2. Perhaps a quick start save from Nexus.

Doing both tests is important, as it's possible that the issue, once fixed may not work retroactively on existing saves. Really hard to tell right now as we're in unknown territory.

---- Removed link as this change will be part of patch 2.0.0i, it didn't have the intended effect of fixing things, but didn't hurt anything either.

Let me know what you guys experience!

-kinggath

It may not have fixed the long saves completely, but it definitely helped. Between this and reducing max threads to 25 the worst I've had is a five minute save, compared to the 15 or 20 minutes before, I call it a big step forward!

With this in version i, I'm going to try loading up my main game tonight, I'll post again if I still have trouble with that one. I have 3 settlements on city plans and a 30+ population starlight, if the worst I get is the occasional five minute save I won't complain.

I hope you know how much we appreciate all the work you've put into this, second best mod of all time for any game, and being second place to Skyrim together is not something to be discouraged about.

 

[AverageSauce247]

Im no expert but Ive been experiencing this issue long enough I am trying to really keep an eye on everything. Everything was 100% normal until I started "If I had a hammer". After the first plot went down and Jake built it I got my first long save but only 2-3x normal so at this point just 5-8 seconds maybe. In my previous playthrough I abandoned it because I was getting CTD and saves were really long like 5-10 minutes at worst. It always seems the closer I am to Sanctuary and the beacon the worse it is but it also happens bad on my old save at The Castle as well. Im also feeling like recruitment is much slower then before. Its just a guess but I would take a look at that quest and the beacons because thats where I am having the most problems. Anyone notice time keeps moving while this is happening sometimes I hear radios and when I come back the camera is spinning around my character like its been idle way too long

 

[Lowjax]

Im no expert but Ive been experiencing this issue long enough I am trying to really keep an eye on everything. Everything was 100% normal until I started "If I had a hammer". After the first plot went down and Jake built it I got my first long save but only 2-3x normal so at this point just 5-8 seconds maybe. In my previous playthrough I abandoned it because I was getting CTD and saves were really long like 5-10 minutes at worst. It always seems the closer I am to Sanctuary and the beacon the worse it is but it also happens bad on my old save at The Castle as well. Im also feeling like recruitment is much slower then before. Its just a guess but I would take a look at that quest and the beacons because thats where I am having the most problems. Anyone notice time keeps moving while this is happening sometimes I hear radios and when I come back the camera is spinning around my character like its been idle way too long

Pretty sure recruitment is slower, also pretty sure it's intentional, there are so many unique NPC's available to make up the difference and there's municipal plots that increase it. If that's still not enough for your tastes there are mods like recruitable NPC's that work well with SS2 (also third party mods that make said NPC's governor material.)

Still, might be worth looking into, but I think they changed that before 2.0 when save times became an issue.

 

[diziet]

I've just started having the long save issue at chapter 2 Martial Law, I cheat skipped chapter 1. Is it related to something that builds up during gameplay?

diziet