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CTD on Upgrading Finch Farm, haven't built anything manually but desk

Amanda

Amanda

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I am going bonkers trying to figure out how to fix this. I don't even know if this is the right place to ask. Please tell me if not. And if there is any information anyone needs that could aid them helping me, just ask!

I should mention first, I played a lot of SS previously and had several successfully fully upgraded settlements where I had built whatever I want co-existing with ROTC no problem. After a long break, 6-8 months, I came back-tweaked my mod list and starting a fresh game- and I kept running into inaccessible settlements (via ctd on fast travel or walking up to). Sanctuary being the first, of course. Did research, read threads and etc. I assumed it was just because I had built a few things. Including a generators. I didn't attach anything directly to SS build plans. But I still assumed it was just that. So I started a fresh game. Didn't build a thing except the city planners desk, obviously. Played the game a bit, donated and such. When it came time to do Sanctuary's first upgrade it happened again. I thought maybe I should just avoid building Sanctuary altogether so I started a new game, again. I left RR and Sanctuary alone completely as far as ROTC is concerned. I have about 6 different settlements in this current game. Anywhere from level 0 to 2. Currently, Finch Farm and County Crossing are both unable to be upgraded. I read through the thread about posting the last line in our Papyrus. But mine is inconsistent. I don't know if it would help. I should specify, actually. They both finish the upgrade. As long as I am on the border of the settlement, facing away. But the second I turn and face it CTD instantly. Which is why walking up or fast traveling becomes impossible after an auto upgrade. So I save and do each manually, just in case.

Other things I have tried; re-downloading, re-installing SS. Opening my saves with Fallrim Tools to clean, didn't have anything to remove. Turning all game settings to Low. Turning all SS settings to Low or Off. Waiting to try upgrading again and going to the other side of the map for hours. Punching Fallout 4 in the kidneys. Alas, I am at a loss.

Any help appreciated, thank you!
 
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Before approaching a CTD settlement, toggle the AI Off via the console command
tai
then see if you can make it into the settlement.
Also turn Visitors Off it isn't already.
Oh! and is it with the Normal City plans or the Optimized plans?
 
snarkywriter said:
This feels like either a conflict or an issue with build limits. Are you using any mods like Scrap Everything? I ask because it can affect how many things the game is trying to load, and this can cause issues with adding more things to a settlement, as occurs with a city upgrade (see this thread for details: https://www.simsettlements.com/site...e-my-ctds-fixable-or-normal-unavoidable.6848/
Click to expand...

Yes, I am now. When I first encountered a problem with Sanctuary on another playthrough I wasn't. But this save with the Finch and CC ctd I am using Build High and Scrap Everything. I thought it would just mess with performance. I had no inkling that it could cause this, oops! Do you suppose removing it would allow me to continue? Or would I most likely need to start fresh without it?

Thank you!
 
Amanda said:
Yes, I am now. When I first encountered a problem with Sanctuary on another playthrough I wasn't. But this save with the Finch and CC ctd I am using Build High and Scrap Everything. I thought it would just mess with performance. I had no inkling that it could cause this, oops! Do you suppose removing it would allow me to continue? Or would I most likely need to start fresh without it?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
No problem! Er, sort of. Unfortunately, you really shouldn't ever remove mods from your load order once you install them, and the changes that Scrap Everything makes to the game mean that you cannot uninstall it safely once it has been installed and loaded into your save file.
 
woodfuzzy said:
Before approaching a CTD settlement, toggle the AI Off via the console command
tai
then see if you can make it into the settlement.
Also turn Visitors Off it isn't already.
Oh! and is it with the Normal City plans or the Optimized plans?
Click to expand...
I will give tai a go. I just assumed that after trying to turn all the features off and settings to low not helping that it wouldn't help. I will try both together. I use the Normal. I haven't tried the Optimized because I didn't believe I needed to. I had no problem before or with the other settlements. I may not have a Think Tank pc. But my machine does alright.

Thank you for the suggestions!
 
snarkywriter said:
No problem! Er, sort of. Unfortunately, you really shouldn't ever remove mods from your load order once you install them, and the changes that Scrap Everything makes to the game mean that you cannot uninstall it safely once it has been installed and loaded into your save file.
Click to expand...
Yes, I normally wouldn't. Which is why I restart so often, lol. I remove only if it is "safe" (using that loosely). I thought Scrap Everything being removed would just make it all reappear again. I will take your word for it though and start a new game without it. See how far I get, thanks!
 
I have no problem with the normal plans, but, I personally like the Optimized versions a LOT better. Except for Murkwater.. I like the normal version there. hehehehe
Toggling the AI off will show if it's a NPC pathing issue. Which for some will CTD instantly. When we were testing the Bunker Hill plan, it had a set of stairs that would cause CTD. I bet I crashed 50+ times trying to narrow it down. LOL
 
woodfuzzy said:
I have no problem with the normal plans, but, I personally like the Optimized versions a LOT better. Except for Murkwater.. I like the normal version there. hehehehe
Toggling the AI off will show if it's a NPC pathing issue. Which for some will CTD instantly. When we were testing the Bunker Hill plan, it had a set of stairs that would cause CTD. I bet I crashed 50+ times trying to narrow it down. LOL
Click to expand...
Well I tried, no luck. I am going to try to start a new game and rush through a couple settlements without Build High and Scrap Everything. Hopefully it is just that and I am blessed with knowledge. Lol!

Thanks again for the suggestions :)
 
Roger that, and good luck. Let us know if that helps.
 
Okay. I am at a complete loss. I have no idea where to go from here. Any help is appreciated, always.

I attempted to use the same save, changing nothing but the setting Complex City Plans to off. Scrapped and rebuilt with optimized versions. Same, ctd as soon as I look at the city during or after upgrade.

So I uninstalled and reinstalled all SS related things. Addons, main plugins, etc. I removed both Scrap Everything and Build High, which had an extended scrapping aspect to it. I rechecked that combined objects wasn't disable, which it wasn't to begin with. And I started a completely new game. No change. I am a river of tears, waaah!

Dramatics aside, I wanted to note that I do not use much in the way of settlement mods outside of SS and it's addons. I have Invisible Furniture and I use Workshop Rearranged. Place Everywhere, Decal Stain Remover and Settler Spawn Button for SS. I also have Multiple Floors Sandboxing and Settler Sandbox Expansion. I also have all of the CC content for settlements and a few patches to fix the menus and etc. they add. Thanks for reading! :)
 
No problem at all, ma’am. They issue life rafts, emergency rations, and life preservers with your User ID here. (I’ve heard you can get water wings and shelf stable chocolate bars too, if you know the right people, but I haven't managed it yet.)

First, I would try Remote Scrapping the cities on your original save using the holotape under Tools -> Configuration Tools, setting the holotape to build the optimized city plans, and Rebuilding Local Data with the holotape under Tools -> Configuration Tools before you try building the city again. I doubt this will work, and it can be tedious, but it can’t hurt to try.

Assuming that fails, it sounds like either (a) one of the mods you are using has received an unstable update since you last played, (b) one of the mods you are using has not updated to be compatible with the most recent version of Fallout 4 and/or the most recent version of one of your other mods, or (c) your system/Fallout 4 is being overwhelmed by your mod loadout [this is the most likely scenario]. Some more information on this is available here:https://simsettlements.com/site/index.php?threads/are-my-ctds-fixable-or-normal-unavoidable.6848/

To confirm, I’d like to start with a few basic troubleshooting questions. I’m assuming from context you are on PC:
  1. Does your computer meet the recommended specs for Fallout 4 (below)
  2. Are you running any programs in the background in addition to FO4 (besides Steam)?
  3. Have you re-validated your Fallout 4 installation with Steam?
  4. Have you made any changes to your .ini files, beyond those recommended here:https://simsettlements.com/web/wiki/index.php?title=Performance?
  5. Are you using a Mod Manager, and if so, which one are you using?
  6. Can you either copy/paste or attach a copy of your load order?
  7. Have you used LOOT to automatically sort your load order (or FO4Edit to manually sort your load order and resolve conflicts)?
  8. Have you seen/tried any of the tips in this thread: https://simsettlements.com/site/index.php?threads/crashing-how-to-help-us-solve-them.2808/ ?
  9. Do you experience the same CTDs when you are looking at/entering/fast travelling to a settlement that DOES NOT use a city plan?
Recommended specs for Fallout 4, for reference:
  • CPU: Intel Core i7 4790 3.6 GHz/AMD FX-9590 4.7 GHz or equivalent
  • CPU SPEED: Info
  • RAM: 8 GB
  • OS: Windows 7/8/10 (64-bit OS required)
  • VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA GTX 780 3GB/AMD Radeon R9 290X 4GB or equivalent
  • FREE DISK SPACE: 30 GB
 
Also, it's possible that Decal Stain Remover - Redux has deleted marker items that the city plan is referring to, and causing a CTD due to a null reference when it tries to render the location.
 
snarkywriter,

To answer your questions;
1) I believe this qualifies, please let me know if otherwise: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.20 GHz / RAM 16 GB / Windows 10 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3 GB / 677 GB free on C and 444 GB free on D (where FO4 is located)
2) Often I will have NMM open because I hate restarting it (I know, so lazy). Chrome is often open. Steam of course. And the rest are background things like Avast and my printer stuff.
3) After coming back from a break I did a fresh install of Fo4 (about one month ago). I also used xedit to clean the plugins by following the guide provided online (just like Skyrim, lol). I also put the work into using the Texture Optimization Project. If you think it would be beneficial I will re-validate and re-do all that.
4) Aside from those ini changes linked (which I did make previously) I made changes to those gawd aweful godrays and pipboy fx. I don't believe I made any other changes.
5) Yes, NMM. I have been contemplating the switch to Mod Manager. But it comes down to lack of patience to do it yet.
6) I would be happy to share my load order. I have never done that before and if you could tell me the most efficient and unobtrusive way to do post it here I would appreciate it. I already have it saved in .txt for easy use in NMM.
7) Yes, I normally use LOOT when I finish re-doing a mod list install. And then I manually make changes with my lil bit of knowledge and recommendations from various mod authors. And then xedit I use quite often to resolve conflicts and such as I see them and make my own patches/edits.
8) I did read through almost all of that thread. First, trying to isolate if there was a common thing in Papyrus causing the crash, I couldn't find anything consistant. Then tweaking settings and the like. I can't remember if it was that thread or another that I first learned about the scrap bug. I thought that it was that at first but I have since learned the characteristics are different than what I have experienced. I might be wrong though.
9) No, not at all. And there are some that I do use city plans that have no issue so far. Of the few I have encountered it is just certain levels of certain builds I think that I am ctding from.

I attempted to disable Decal Stain Remover and upgrade with no change. But that might mean nothing because I didn't start a fresh game. I think I might try disabling everything but SS and starting new to see if it is game or mod related. I know there has to be an answer because I have enjoyed the ish out of SS previously. As always, I will try your suggestions and appreciate any more you have. I will post my load order too as soon as I learn how to do it without taking up the whole page, lol.

Thanks again!
 
Amanda said:
But that might mean nothing because I didn't start a fresh game. I think I might try disabling everything but SS and starting new to see if it is game or mod related.
Click to expand...
BINGO! Winner Winner Molerat Dinner! :)
When things get rough... hide in the grass and pick off the Raiders trying to sneak in!

Okay.. You can disable all the mods in the Plugin Tab.
You can post the contents your Plugins.txt in spoiler tags

Texture mods IF they are a problem will always cause CTD when the bad texture is called to render. or you'll see the ol purple missing nif logo. Armor Clothing is pretty much the same...little different.. but usually CTD issues are nif related.

So... yeah.. disable start new This works great if needed. and weed that sneaky bugger out! :)
 
Amanda said:
I attempted to disable Decal Stain Remover and upgrade with no change. But that might mean nothing because I didn't start a fresh game. I think I might try disabling everything but SS and starting new to see if it is game or mod related. I know there has to be an answer because I have enjoyed the ish out of SS previously. As always, I will try your suggestions and appreciate any more you have. I will post my load order too as soon as I learn how to do it without taking up the whole page, lol.
Click to expand...
woodfuzzy said:
Texture mods IF they are a problem will always cause CTD when the bad texture is called to render. or you'll see the ol purple missing nif logo. Armor Clothing is pretty much the same...little different.. but usually CTD issues are nif related.
Click to expand...

Yeap, I think we found part of it. Cracking Decal Stain Remover - Redux open in FO4Edit, it marks several hundred placed objects as deleted:Decal Stain Remover - Redux v2018.8.20.jpg

The RotC city plans are built around vanilla settlements, and likely are referencing those objects. This probably at least partially contributes to your CTDs.
 
Deleting anything is VERY BAD!!!
All that stuff will at some point respawn at 0,0,0 (world center) which will cause massive lag and CTD.
The building right in front of Greenetech Genetics is world center. btw.

Easy fix though... filter for cleaning, undelete & disable references.
Doing it that way, if another mod calls the disabled reference it will render like normal.
 
Okay awesome, I am happy to be getting somewhere with your guy's help. Thank you. So I have a new save with all plugins disabled except the 3 in 1 and unofficial patch. I am running it now while I cook dinner. And next, if it was successful, I'll try adding back all but decal remover and see what transpires. And based on that I will test more. I really, really appreciate you both for taking time to help me. :)
 
I'd add back in batches/categories.
Settlement Mods... maybe 1 at a time..
Armor/weapon/clothing
then the rest..
OH! Dinner!!
Hope it's moelrat on a stick! Loooove that stuff!

Sorry.. just had a nap.... little goofy! hehehehe
 
Well, darn! Even with just those two plugins there is still a problem. Grumble, grumble. I didn't uninstall any mods while running the test. Only disabled plugins. I did re-download SS earlier today. So that itself should have nothing wrong with it. So I am guessing I need to redo Fallout 4 itself? :shout
 
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