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Old Post Crash in Build Menu... repeatable & almost constant

S

SangRahl

New Member
Messages
2
After the recent update to 3-in1, Conquerer, & Workshop Framework (and the recent re-addition of FO4Hotkeys, OutfitSwitcher, & their HeadgearToggle), I will consistently be sent to desktopwhile in the Build Menu, most specifically while trying to place SimSettlement plots (not actually placing then, just hovering around and getting their alignment while in the menu). I've been able to sneak in a couple without getting dumped to desktop, but it is often enough that I'm starting to dread making updates to my TWO settlements: Starlight Drive-In, and now Red Rocket Station (to be an experimental Bots-Only "breeding program" for Ada & Codsworth to go all 'No Batteries Included'...).

Starlight has a thriving community of 31 Settlers and mod-added recruits, doing fairly well in spite of the Shelter bug rearing it's ugly head constantly. Happiness hovers at the ~79% level, and development has been very steady. Red Rocket consists of only a Logistics building and a first-floor power plant... I have yet to get the martial plot placed on the road without immediately staring at a static screen (new monitor doesn't enjoy shifting from 1080p to 4k... force a new HDMI handshake and all's well again). I've had a previous crash-on-Workshop-exit issue that has been solved through a thorough culling of an insane number of savegames from previous installations (from launch to late Dec-2017).

Again, the most recent additions are FO4Hotkeys & OutfitSwitcher... I'm not sure if they have inherent issues with WorkshopFramework or Workshop+, but I won't rule that out with the subsequent timing.

Obligatory LOOT output:
Code: 
  0  0     Fallout4.esm
  1  1     DLCRobot.esm
  2  2     DLCworkshop01.esm
  3  3     DLCCoast.esm
  4  4     DLCworkshop02.esm
  5  5     DLCworkshop03.esm
  6  6     DLCNukaWorld.esm
  7  7     Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
  8  8     ArmorKeywords.esm
  9  9     HUDFramework.esm
 10  a     SimSettlements.esm
 11  b     WorkshopFramework.esm
 12  c     ConcealedArmor.esm
 13  d     SettlementKeywords.esm
 14  e     TrueStormsFO4.esm
254 FE   0 SimSettlements_IDEKsLogisticsStation.esl
 15  f     EveryonesBestFriend.esp
 16 10     BetterCompanions.esp
 17 11     Dogmeat  A True Companion Normal.esp
 18 12     NoSharedDogmeatTemplate.esp
 19 13     OutfitSwitcher.esp
 20 14     HelmetToggle.esp
 21 15     FO4Hotkeys.esp
 22 16     UnPlumbob.esp
 23 17     Targeting Sensors on Recon Scopes.esp
 24 18     SlipperyChameleon.esp
 25 19     WM Chinese Assault Rifle - Standalone.esp
 26 1a     Better Settlement Defence.esp
 27 1b     Yona_Weapon_DefenseGun.esp
 28 1c     Buzz_Axe.esp
 29 1d     Faster Terminal Displays (20x).esp
 30 1e     RaiderPAChopShop.esp
 31 1f     Armorsmith Extended.esp
 32 20     BKFT_Renegade.esp
 33 21     JLS Kellogg's Armor Tweaked.esp
 34 22     WorkshopSupplyRemover.esp
 35 23     PD_LowerWeapon.esp
 36 24     Dogmeat's Backpack.esp
 37 25     CROSS_ReducedLaserSmoke.esp
 38 26     Crimsomrider's Accessories.esp
 39 27     Eli_Accessories.esp
 40 28     BTInteriors_Project.esp
 41 29     3DNPC_FO4.esp
 42 2a     Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp
 43 2b     BTInt_Optimization.esp
 44 2c     def_inv_scrap_en.esp
 45 2d     MojaveImports.esp
 46 2e     Locky Bastard.esp
 47 2f     LegendaryModification.esp
 48 30     Legendary Modifier Rebalance Core.esp
 49 31     CrimeTown.esp
 50 32     EquilibriumWeapons.esp
 51 33     Better Cooking Stations.esp
 52 34     Better Cooking Stations - Mojave Imports patch.esp
 53 35     WastelandImports_PurifiedWaterRecipes.esp
 54 36     CombatZoneRestored.esp
 55 37     TrainBar.esp
 56 38     America Rising - A Tale of the Enclave.esp
 57 39     Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
 58 3a     3DNPC_FO4_DLC.esp
 59 3b     IndustrialCity_Sim_Settlements_Addon.esp
 60 3c     jdmCouchSleep.esp
 61 3d     SettlementMenuManager.esp
 62 3e     RecruitableSettlers.esp
 63 3f     LooksMirror.esp
 64 40     Leaders Of The Commonwealth.esp
 65 41     LongerPowerLines3x.esp
 66 42     ConcealedArmor.esp
 67 43     Binoculars.esp
 68 44     Smoke-able Cigars.esp
 69 45     MikeMooresMCAM.esp
 70 46     RedWaveReloaded.esp
 71 47     W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
 72 48     SimSettlements_XPAC_Conqueror.esp
 73 49     MilitarizedMinutemen.esp
 74 4a     WorkshopPlus.esp
 75 4b     ruined_handmadeturrets.esp
 76 4c     3DNPC_FO4Settler.esp
 77 4d     RecruitableSettlersFH.esp
 78 4e     Mercenary.esp
 79 4f     SuperMutantRedux.esp
 80 50     Legendary Modifier Rebalance Normal - LM Scrap.esp
 81 51     Chameleon No Sound.esp
 82 52     AltChameleonVisuals.esp
 83 53     TurretManual.esp
 84 54     Remington.esp
 85 55     SS_AddOn_CbC_AIO.esp
 86 56     UsefulCrank.esp
 87 57     tsuki no hana.esp
 88 58     WattzLaserGun.esp
 89 59     ClassicSniper.esp
 90 5a     FO4 NPCs Travel.esp
 91 5b     SimSettlementsAddOnPack - RaiderRefugees.esp
 92 5c     RobCoHackTools.esp
 93 5d     CrudeBlowback.esp
254 FE   1 CROSS_BrotherhoodRecon.esp
 94 5e     ClassicSniperSounds.esp
 95 5f     JunkTown.esp
 96 60     Scavvers of the Commonwealth.esp
 97 61     ruined_simsettlement_addonpack.esp
 98 62     ohSIM_Sim_Settlements_Scrappers_Addon.esp
 99 63     EnclaveUniform.esp
100 64     HandmadeRevolver.esp
101 65     HuntingRevolver.esp
102 66     AtomicRadio.esp
103 67     BloodMoonRaiders.esp
104 68     SalvageBeacons.esp
105 69     MJC_Con_Cells.esp
106 6a     This is MY Bed (Extended).esp
107 6b     CR_OuthouseCollection.esp
108 6c     CROSS_Cybernetics.esp
109 6d     Survivalist GoBags-Chem Station.esp
110 6e     JT-Fences.esp
111 6f     IMG_Castle_Wall_Patches.esp
112 70     BossChestsHaveLegendaries.esp
113 71     AnimChemRedux.esp
114 72     Bashing killmoves enabled.esp
115 73     CigaretteInMouth.esp
116 74     CriticalHitsOutsideofVATS.esp
117 75     Fireaxe.esp
118 76     YogCrowbar.esp
119 77     ThrawingWeapans.esp
120 78     ShellRain.esp
121 79     RenRadioMod.esp
122 7a     Project Reality Footsteps FO4.esp
123 7b     EnclaveX02.esp
124 7c     Hellfirenew.esp
125 7d     No Power Armor Landing Impact Or Root Animation Effect Damage.esp
126 7e     Nuclear Physicist Redone.esp
127 7f     PerpetualBeta_OppressorDogArmor.esp
128 80     Overboss-PA-NoChain.esp
129 81     RemoteExplosives.esp
130 82     SkibsWeapons-REDUX.esp
131 83     True-Frags_v1-2_MidDmg_Knockdown_MidRange_NukaDLC.esp
132 84     VATST_Distance_7500.esp
133 85     Cigarettes_patch.esp
134 86     OWR_CraftableDecor_CW.esp
135 87     Legendary Modifier Rebalance - Stalkers Sight - LM Scrap.esp
136 88     LegendaryModification - DLC Far Harbor.esp
137 89     Legendary Modifier Rebalance Normal - Far Harbor - LM Scrap.esp
138 8a     Legendary Modifier Rebalance SPECIAL - LM Scrap.esp
139 8b     LegendaryModification2LM.esp
140 8c     Patch_BuzzAxe_2LM.esp
141 8d     LegendaryModification - DLC Far Harbor (2LM).esp
142 8e     LegendaryModification - DLC Far Harbor (2LM Concealed).esp
143 8f     LegendaryModification2LMConcealed.esp
144 90     LegendaryModificationGroknak.esp
145 91     OWR_CraftableDecor.esp
146 92     OWR_CraftableDecor_SKPatch.esp
147 93     OWR.esp
148 94     VATST_Targeting_ReallySlow.esp
149 95     VATST_Stranger_Vanilla_x2.esp
150 96     VATST_HitChance_1_3.esp
151 97     Craftable Armor Size - Fix Material Requirements.esp
152 98     Craftable Armor Size.esp
153 99     CROSS_GoreCrits.esp
154 9a     CROSS_GoreCrits_FarHarborPatch.esp
155 9b     VATST_CritHitBar_x2.esp
156 9c     CrudeBlowback - AWKCR.esp
157 9d     CrudeBlowback-1.5xDMG.esp
158 9e     VATST_Combat_Vanilla_25.esp
159 9f     VATST_BulletFlyAdd_x3Faster.esp
160 a0     TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp
161 a1     TrueStormsFO4-FarHarborExtraRads.esp
162 a2     TrueStormsFO4-FarHarbor.esp
163 a3     TrueStormsFO4-NukaWorld-FH-Compat.esp
164 a4     TrueStormsFO4-EarlierSunsetsFH.esp
165 a5     TrueStormsFO4-EarlierSunsets.esp
166 a6     SuperMutantRedux_ArmorSmithExtended.esp
167 a7     HandmadeRevolver - AWKCR.esp
 
Couple of things.....
Hotkeys and outfit switcher are not the problem as they're just ini files.
In starlight do you have SS plots for all those 31 settlers?
How big is your last save file?
 
There are 31 Interior Residences and more than enough work plots in Starlight. (I was trying out various Commercial plots to try and find a workaround for lack of crafting bench access; solved via another thread.)

Save files are hovering around 30-32MB.

There is, however, a new issue with crashing upon arrival at Starlight, though. On fast travel, there is a short 10fps pause before immediate CTD... barely even enough time to turn myself around. On a slower, walking approach, there is a great deal of asset ghosting and pop-in (debris on the movie screen, with no visible building; hovering flames above the yet-to-spawn martial gateway; the one "visible" apartment building missing walls, roof sections, and random furniture appearing), and upon passing the Brahmin puddle, another short stint of 10fps before immediate CTD. The route taken was practically a straight shot from the outskirts of Concord over the Bramin pond, if that matters.
 
It would be good to check things with Fallrim”resaver”
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5031
We would be looking for a screenshot like the below:
index.php


Don't clean anything but maybe we would see something with the screenshot.

And if you have not already read the below, please do?

https://www.simsettlements.com/site...-recovering-a-problem-settlement-part-1.7125/

Above 20 is always fine. Until it isn’t. :crazy
 
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31 residential plots and jobs is going to cause problems for even a small load order.
A potential 60 SS plots is going to overwhelm the papryus and CTD.
Before you go down the road of recovery as @RayBo posted above, add this to your Fallout4Custom.ini:

[Papyrus]
fUpdateBudgetMS=2.4
fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=2.4
iMinMemoryPageSize=256
iMaxMemoryPageSize=1024
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=307200

Then log in and make a hard save - save to desktop and disable all the True Storms .esp's - save to desktop again - log back in and ignore the warnings about missing mods. Then save to desktop one more time and tell us the size of your save file again.
 
Starting the process provided, but since I'd made it, here's the screencap for my latest autosave (inside the BTInt Diner in Concord).
NewestFO4Autosave.PNG

Will repeat the process after removing TrueStorms...

On another note: I've tried looking around, but I haven't actually found what is considered an "acceptable population" for player settlements or RotC-run settlements, with the closest being RayBo's response of "x is fine. Until it isn't." I'd likely not run into this issue if I'd found it earlier, but that's another issue. Honestly, I have enough logistics questions regarding populations and development, both player-run and RotC from start of game, that I'll likely end up making a new thread just about that.
 
The file size is not out of proportion considering the number of addon packs and build items. My file size would be in the 20-25mb range... after I do prebuilds for conqueror, my save file currently is 34mb... if he has only one instance in re-saver, scripting is not the issue...

Few things not mentioned - what is the performance wizard set (ultra or low) - I have had the Fx on when I switch building plans and if a big city, it will CTD with the sound. Hell, even the deathclaw in concord smashing out of the ground when / can cause CTD.

Phil is more likely on track. I really find that once you crest over the 20 settlers per settlement, with Sim Settlements, on ultra, etc etc... it stretches the system, even with the papyrus changes to accommodate. Even at that, 40 SS plots for 20 settlers is a hit... Starlight to run effectively, is going to be over utilized. I know the temptation is there... so much space...

Example of how bad it is... the Starlight contest winner, level 3, on ultra with conqueror... I run about 30 to 35fps... 60fps if I look away... and 60fps is limited... my 1080TI card can run much higher if unthrottled...

So try Phil's idea ... might be an improvement...
John
 
I feel like 32mb is too big with only 2 settlements, also 78k instances also feels way too much on what I assume is a save in it's early stages.

@SangRahl On the majority of the non-complex city plans the settler amount is 15 max. If you keep to that you'll have a much smoother game play.
 
Pre-TS Removal:
NewestFO4Cleansave_withTS.PNG
Post-TS Removal:
NewestFO4Cleansave_NoTS.PNG

I've pretty well resolved myself to a clean restart of this playthrough... I'm fairly certain Starlight (my person fave for building out of) is now a black hole of processor suffering.

But, since every "session" (from PC creation to end-goal achievement; not necessarily the pre-defined story arc from the writers) of my playing of a FO or ES title has a pretty solid self-made development cycle built-in, I'm happy to reset and go about things in a more conscientious and deliberate manner.

Whether I'm playing a charismatic rogue (...and I'm a stealth sniper), or walking tank with a big-*ss weapon and armor bolted on top of my actual armor (...and, again, I become a stealth sniper), or I doff any form of protection and dive in with a murderous glare, bare fists, and fire & explosions... LOTS of fire & explosions (...and, once more, I'm mysteriously a stealth sniper) I have a storyline baked in with the character creation and backstory. I've had the generic "4/all" Jack-of-all-Trades synth sympathizer, the nerdy weakling in PA that decided to take on the Mechanist... bot for bot, an ex-boxer with a penchant for heavy weapons, and a former explosives expert who didn't take the "new family dynamic" well after his rescue mission into the bottom of C.I.T. (My current replay, what with the new Conquerer offerings to explore, post-trauma.)

*Edit (just noted above response):
@Phil_T_Casual
I also have all non-quest-related settlements with a default RotC plan in place, starting from foundations at game start, with random 30-50% population to begin. I can confirm Abernathy and Oberland are both developing, but have only briefly visited both while just passing through.

I didn't want to have them at full Lvl.3 from the get-go, and was looking forward to them building up while I make the shift to 'Raider Psycho' in the "late game". One, wherever I started knocking down to start would definately be less protected than those that may have reached Lvl.3 by the time I got to them. Again, have other questions about the RotC workings and progression while out of the player's control... for another thread.
 
Last edited:
Don't abandon it yet, I have brought saves like yours back from the dead more than once.
With your save as it is and if you added the papryus headroom I posted above now go to starlight and see what happens, again walk up, don't fast travel.
 
Phil_T_Casual said:
Don't abandon it yet, I have brought saves like yours back from the dead more than once.
With your save as it is and if you added the papryus headroom I posted above now go to starlight and see what happens, again walk up, don't fast travel.
Click to expand...

I play survival and don't fast travel... so I can at least say for me, even the "triangle of death" is not a problem for me. I walk everywhere so time is allowed to fully load...

I do all prebuilds, start all at lvl 0 foundation with population between 10 to 50%.

John
 
@Phil_T_Casual
Back in game... was able to deal with an expansive Raider patrol right outside Starlight, and have a fully-spawned settlement in view. That .ini tweak (and maybe forgetting to restart TrueStorms) seems to have done the trick. I’ll save and restart the TS plugins, once I’ve gotten in and verified no actual losses, and scrap the bloody beacon.

I’ll probably send the unnamed “Settlers” up to Red Rocket to start anew, or as sacrificial lambs to cull the herd. (Decided to shift the Robot Xanadu to Sanctuary, as Codsworth refused to leave his little homestead to meet Ada at the station.)
 
@MrCJohn
I’d forgotten the little background things like that, that made Survivals mode better. But, having just come back after an 18 month sabbatical from the Commonwealth, I was more focused on fast travel to quicken the multiple traversals of downtown needed to be able to get to the gameplay I’m actually looking forward to... burning it all down, again.

@Phil_T_Casual
No issues so far. Been able to hop in and out of Workshop mode and interact with plots without issue.

Im hoping I’m not reserving myself to no more TS because of the scripting load, I hope.

I’ll probably get Red Rocket set up and the robot Salvage operations underway before I retake a snap of the subsequent save file before trying to put the weather systems back online, though.
 
Sometimes hard decisions have to be made when it comes to using mods. I can't use one of my favourite mods; WOTC. I will CTD every 20 mins in down town Boston with it and SS installed.

I also used to use TS and even that and WOTC together could be unstable.

I'm gald you got things working again and all was not lost.
 
As shall I, it seems...

Though, right now I seem to have gotten myself stuck in a 3dnpc quest-end crash loop. A “lucky” roll of Idiot Savant On completion, so made the Pavlovian Quicksave response... and CTD 10sec later. Now, it seems I’ll have to eat the gained level to try and not have a rolling load/crash loop, in its stead. ::sigh::
C’est la vie, I guess.
 
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