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Old Post City Plan Builders - Recommendation

kinggath

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I know everyone has building mods they love and you’re probably using them in your city designs.

If your goal is to share your design with as many people as possible- I would highly advise against it.

If you look at the download numbers of the currently released City Plans versus addon packs, they are not close. I don’t think it’s coincidence that they all have mod requirements outside of Sim Settlements- especially with the advent of esl files meaning the mod count isn’t a big concern with them. Now obviously, building designs are much more versatile than City Plans, so that plays a role in this as well- but if you look at the comments on the pages for both City Plans and Transfer Settlements Blueprints, the biggest hesitation folks have, is needing to install additional mods. The Project Blueprint mods are special in that the player’s your City Plan don’t need them installed- these are simply construction records for things included in the base game or Sim Settlements, so all players using City Plans will have them already.

One of the big reasons I created the Project Blueprint mods, was to avoid the situation that Transfer Settlements finds itself in, which is that most users aren’t willing to install a bunch of mods to get access to a settlement design. If you haven’t already, spend some time digging into these mods, the item pool is incredibly deep. We have just about every vanilla asset available.

Obviously, there are tons of great settlement object mods out there, but 90% of them are adding assets from the vanilla game and are either combining them for quicker placement, or adding some sort of functionality. Rare is the building mod that is adding actual unique assets. Consider this when you’re designing with other mods, “Could this be built by combining pieces and special effects that are already available?”

I would argue that people using City Plans are primarily concerned that the place looks great- the fact that a light source is separate from the model or that a pile of clutter is individual pieces rather than one mesh isn’t going to matter to the end user. By avoiding building mods that are just making use of vanilla assets and building these things yourself, or finding alternatives to those custom asset mods by combining pieces from the PBP mods, you’re putting in more effort up front, to make things easier on your would-be fans- and they will love you for it!


All of that said, not every creator does things for the same reason, and I built support for all mods in the City Plan system so you can design however you like- unrestricted. Some of you should definitely use whatever build mods you love in your City Plans! The purpose of this post is to recommend that before you put in the dozens of hours to design a City, you consider your own motivations- if, like me, you are heavily motivated by reaching a wide audience, avoiding external mods in your design will help you reach that goal.
 
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Oh, btw - I will be releasing an update to the Project Blueprint mods in the next week or so, which will add hundreds more items, and some new custom items that aren’t available in any other mod. Hopefully the additions I’ll be continually adding over the coming months will help fill most of the gaps and get you all the assets you need to create wonderful city designs!
 
Speaking for myself, there are a few things I want when I using asset mods - that I can't reasonably expect from Project Blueprint.

1 is snappability. I love being able to get Vanilla Extensions, Workshop Rearranged, Kraggles or G2M, and just start snapping new pieces together. New door frames - snap! - plot foundations - snap! - floor supports - snap! It's tedious and error prone to emulate it with Project Blueprint.

2 is additional functionality. Thematic and Practical has specialized caravan trader items, working bunk beds. Do it Yourshelf makes decorating so much easier. Creative Clutter has additional workbenches.

3 is efficient time management. Yeah - I probably could replicate all my non-creation club decorations from Project Blueprint. It would simple take far more time than I want to spend. It's hard finding stuff quickly in Project Blueprint. Project Blueprints strength is also its weakness. It has almost everything - but they buried somewhere in there that I will probably miss when scanning.
 
Your criticisms are quite valid and I definitely understand the frustration. Project Blueprint is still young, I'm certain that as time goes on and mod authors volunteer to improve it or donate assets to it, that it will have transforms (so that the preview pictures are in the menu), snap points, etc. I know that Creative Clutter has plans to donate some of our assets to Project Blueprint, we're just swamped getting our own update out before we have time to support getting those assets added to Project Blueprint. I've also got a side project adding collision to vanilla plants to make it possible to build those as well in workshop mode which I also plan to donate to Project Blueprint.

However probably the single biggest barrier to improving Project Blueprint is that there are not enough knowledgeable volunteers to help improve it. Many of the tasks such as adding new items or adding transforms are easy to learn to do for people with no modding experience and we can certainly provide directions on that to people willing to volunteer. It just takes time because there are a LOT of items to add or update. Even adding snap points is relatively easy to learn to do and requires nothing more than a free program (Nifskope) but is also somewhat time consuming. Plus I'll be honest, these are the types of modding tasks that while unskilled are also fairly boring to do and xEdit scripts can only automate so much.
 
I figure you're the norm Yagisan, it's not going to be worth the extra effort these mods take to get the result you want for everyone. (btw, bunk beds you can make yourself with the tool, just place the bunk bed model and then place one of the bed markers on the top bunk)

Some folks are motivated by getting respect/likes from the community, so I wanted to set expectations for people in that camp. It will require some extra labor to get there.

damanding is correct on snaps and transforms, we can absolutely add those (without causing any mod bloating - which is my primary prerequisite for changing things in the tool), will just need folks interested in doing so. I'm hoping to one day find an OCD volunteer or two willing to battle the task. :)
 
Speaking for myself, there are a few things I want when I using asset mods - that I can't reasonably expect from Project Blueprint.

1 is snappability. I love being able to get Vanilla Extensions, Workshop Rearranged, Kraggles or G2M, and just start snapping new pieces together. New door frames - snap! - plot foundations - snap! - floor supports - snap! It's tedious and error prone to emulate it with Project Blueprint.

2 is additional functionality. Thematic and Practical has specialized caravan trader items, working bunk beds. Do it Yourshelf makes decorating so much easier. Creative Clutter has additional workbenches.

3 is efficient time management. Yeah - I probably could replicate all my non-creation club decorations from Project Blueprint. It would simple take far more time than I want to spend. It's hard finding stuff quickly in Project Blueprint. Project Blueprints strength is also its weakness. It has almost everything - but they buried somewhere in there that I will probably miss when scanning.

From a builder's perspective:

1) Snaps get in the way easily as often as they help. Place anywhere helps with this a little but toggling object snapping just makes things snap to unintended other random things and then you end up with unintended movement where simply moving a piece of random clutter offsets every wall in the settlement. There's a lot of tips and tricks for working without snaps but the biggest one is to be aware of and use place anywhere to its fullest extent. Liberal use of the copy and paste location is very much a thing, even with pieces of different types (copying floor location and pasting it onto a wall usually results in the wall moving to the proper position on the floor as though it were snapped).

2) Not much can be done about this one, you get your choice of wider distribution of your settlement or using more mods. Requiring CC mods will immediately put your mod into the "do not load" list of the CC haters so as a builder, you're kind of caught in a political storm in a teacup there. That's not a judgement I can help on other than to point out that even CC content requires downloadable content that people may not have or want to get just to load your settlement design.

3) See 2 with the addition that it's arguably less efficient to load and maintain current versions of multiple mods vs just the one. Like everything, the more you use the tools, the better you will get with them. At least the toolset is classified into rough categories. How many times have you lost something in the decorations -> misc category in vanilla? I have.. a LOT.
 
I figure you're the norm Yagisan, it's not going to be worth the extra effort these mods take to get the result you want for everyone. (btw, bunk beds you can make yourself with the tool, just place the bunk bed model and then place one of the bed markers on the top bunk)
Indeed you can - and it's something to consider if I build without residential plots.

damanding is correct on snaps and transforms, we can absolutely add those (without causing any mod bloating - which is my primary prerequisite for changing things in the tool), will just need folks interested in doing so. I'm hoping to one day find an OCD volunteer or two willing to battle the task. :)
That would certainly reduce some dependencies on external mods.
 
Your criticisms are quite valid and I definitely understand the frustration. Project Blueprint is still young, I'm certain that as time goes on and mod authors volunteer to improve it or donate assets to it, that it will have transforms (so that the preview pictures are in the menu), snap points, etc. I know that Creative Clutter has plans to donate some of our assets to Project Blueprint, we're just swamped getting our own update out before we have time to support getting those assets added to Project Blueprint. I've also got a side project adding collision to vanilla plants to make it possible to build those as well in workshop mode which I also plan to donate to Project Blueprint.

However probably the single biggest barrier to improving Project Blueprint is that there are not enough knowledgeable volunteers to help improve it. Many of the tasks such as adding new items or adding transforms are easy to learn to do for people with no modding experience and we can certainly provide directions on that to people willing to volunteer. It just takes time because there are a LOT of items to add or update. Even adding snap points is relatively easy to learn to do and requires nothing more than a free program (Nifskope) but is also somewhat time consuming. Plus I'll be honest, these are the types of modding tasks that while unskilled are also fairly boring to do and xEdit scripts can only automate so much.

So how does one add snap points? I might be willing if someone were to provide a tutorial.
 
In the end it all comes down to how much time I'm willing to spend on creating something the long way when I know there's a mod that will just do it.

Very recently I caved and used Do It Yourshelf in the Castle. I could have done the exact same thing with the City Planner's Toolkit stuff, but I would have had to think about it more and be more precise and that's... not a part of designing I'm willing to do. So I used it. If fewer people use my blueprints, I'm perfectly happy making that tradeoff. I've already given up about thirty mods. :D

I mean, yeah, when you use extra stuff, if people don't want to use the extra stuff they won't use your blueprint. But if the extra stuff has stuff you want, and it's not available anywhere else/available easily anywhere else, then that's the way it goes. It's all good.
 
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Ultimately it boils down to who you are designing for. If it's yourself and you're just sharing, mod her up. If it's a general audience that you hope to receive wider recognition from, limiting the mods used to as few extremely common ones as possible will go a long way towards making your vision available on as many platforms as it can be.
 
DIY is at least a very popular mod that quite a few settlement builders will already have.
 
Just to throw in the obvious, every next requirement is just that much more likely that something will go wonky. For example, the city builds by MJC on Xbox require G2M, which I never used before. Two of them worked fine, but one of them has internal plots floating in the air.
 
@kinggath With a random and what is needed when starting the settlement, we as users may not always agree. Im thinking that there could some way to set our priorities into the settlement we start. I.e. I love to get provisioners going and IDEK's Logistic is the one I have fell in love with. So I really want them to get that up and running fairly early, both for connection points and for general distribution of resources.
Some times its not so easy to find an industrial plot in the settlement you just got started unless you have used it for a while.
Preferably in my mind, that mod would be a part of RotC and the first plot built and manned after you assign your city leader. That I know is a big ask, and may not happen. The prioirity table, that I do know you could influence.

Thank you for your time in this, and for everything you have done with this epic mod.
 
Just saw this post, if there were a way to have as many levels as you wanted then you could make a level0 with just the one assignment - logistics - and then hopefully it wouldn't be too long until level1 came around, in fact you could do this now; but as I write I'm thinking that unless there is also a way to speed up level progression it might not be very useful/immersive.
 
In my design I have ILS as only industrial in lvl 0. Even with "Designer's Choice" it builds a scrap heap. :( Of, course, when changing plans it builds provided you have lvl 1 of Local leader.

Wish I knew better the mechanics behind level up of cities, except the fact it takes days. I'm struggling a little with number of beds which keeps happiness down.

And from when did a brahmin count as a settler when Animal recruits is set to Off? Now that stupid brahmin never builds a home and drags happiness down. Getting a little frustrated over that.
 
For whatever reason, Industrial plots don't seem to use building plans from add-on packs with Designer's Choice - I haven't been able to figure out why (they use the same code as every plot, so I don't know why they act differently).

Brahmin don't count as settlers unless a mod you installed altered them, when you mouse over brahmin or dogs, it will show them as unassigned - but they don't count towards the population.

Sounds like you lost a settler somewhere, try using the town meeting gavel to summon everyone to you so you can identify the extra person.
 
Not sure if this is of any help.

I discovered that when industrial built the scrap heap, it did have power from cp, but after I changed it to ILS it became powerless.
I'll research more into the brahmin incident of mine, but if it is from a mod, I suspect one of the Mega Pack. This because I only added 2 into settlement which is ILS and SimTowers after SS 3in1, RofC and MegaPack.
And of course the CP toolkit.
 
Found the missing settler, it was just Cait that didnt build herself a home for some reason unknown.
 
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