31 components, survival, no vats, permadeath done - some thoughts

[Colonel Ducky]

I heard Kinggath field a question about a SS2 permadeath run in one of his SS2 streams and talk about how hard it would be, especially When There's Smoke, so I decided to give it a shot. It wasn't that hard, but it absolutely required some forethought and planning. I never could have done it without a plan. The challenge was in figuring out how to be prepared.

Ok, first of all, let me say with this being my fourth SS2 playthrough, I've been using the mod for a while, and man has it gotten wildly more bug free and stable. Great freakin' job on that.

Only one complaint of significance, and even that has an easy solution. If you're producing resources at a higher rate than you're using them and at a different proportion than you're using them, and you have a resource storage cap, you are mathematically guaranteed to run out of certain resources when other resources eat up all your space. You absolutely NEED Sim Settlements 2 Excess Resource Manager by cbrgamer3 so you can throw away your eight bazillion tons of wood and steel that prevent you from accumulating acid and fertilizer (for instance). This should really be included functionality in SS2, but no biggie, there's a solution.

Ok, and some praise for a feature I never hear anybody mention but I think is spectacular. If you talk to the settler manning your caravan plot, you can choose to fast travel to other settlements in your caravan network. This is perfect for survival players that want the challenge of no fast travel but without the meaningless hike between two close-ish cleared settlements for the hundredth time. Walking between Sanctuary and Starlight, for instance, presents zero challenge once the path is cleared, and no fast travel is more an annoyance than a hardcore feature at that point. Caravan fast travel is an excellent game balance compromise for survival players. I don't know why I never hear about this feature.

Ok, some gameplay tips for 31 components, survival, no vats, permadeath...

Hoard food so you can spend a few days just sleeping and eating in brand new settlements. Giving a new settlement the time to upgrade a few plots to level 2 before moving on will dramatically reduce your need to to revisit them in the future. Also, in the early game, don't be afraid to preplan your plots before you have the settlers to fill them. Jake's workshop in Concord has more than enough ASAMs to get several settlements started before you have the resources to build on the plots or the settlers to operate. It doesn't cost anything to place the plot and let it build later if you don't have the resources yet, and you won't have to come back later, just let the newcomers fill out your preplanned plots.

Spam Industrial plots. No really. I can't overstate. Spam industrial plots. I ran with 2 or 3 of each production plot in EVERY settlement. This strategy almost requires a charisma build if you want the settlers to man all those plots. It sadly also requires hardware that can laugh at settlement build limits. You're gonna need to ignore settlement build limits to have every settlement fleshed out with a 20 ish compliment of settlers and all their needs met.

Memorize the components needed for building a caravan and a comms plot so you can immediately connect to your network and attract settlers. A bit of no brainer here.

stop here to avoid spoilers

Turrets, turrets, turrets. SS2 martial plots fulfill the stat requirement just fine, but aren't actually useful in fending off the gunner attacks after rescuing Jake. I don't need to tell anybody how to build a defensible settlement, just that you still need to do so instead of relying on martial plots.

Rush to Science 2 for the power armor targeting hud upgrade. This is less a SS2 tip and more just a survival no vats permadeath tip. If you don't have vats to find enemies, making them glow is hugely helpful. And fight at night. Your enemies now glow, night is your friend. On that same note, bring a companion to When There's Smoke. Lone Wanderer is great, but having one more body in addition to Jake and Aiden to draw fire so you can spot the enemy from the elevated wooden shack and snipe is very helpful.

If you take Gun Nut, Armorer, and Sneak 3 or 4 before taking GNN, you should have no problem with that fight so long as you approach the initial assault patiently and wear power armor. Your forces can tie up the enemy forces just fine on their own. Just sit back and provide long range support until it's safe to advance.

 

[Rocola]

Great post. I've read about the martial plots being useless in survival mode because they eat all resources

 

[Ser_Sunday]

Great info! I too am a fan of the caravan fast travel services. My only gripe about using the caravaneers for fast travel is that the dialogue seems to be tied to their proximity to the caravan plot so if they're "on break" wandering around talking to them only yields the "I just want to trade some things" prompt. At least for me personally.

Also I'm curious because the martial plots I build tend to have turrets or spotlights built in and they fire normally do you think I should still build other turrets and whatnot? Personally whenever I show up to a settlement that's being attacked the gunners always seem to spawn right in the middle of my settlement, sometimes spawning literally inside of plot buildings. It can make the SS2 defense quests a bit annoying because I tend to build my defenses around the entrances and exits to the settlement itself. Anyone else ever experience that issue?

 

[Colonel Ducky]

Great info! I too am a fan of the caravan fast travel services. My only gripe about using the caravaneers for fast travel is that the dialogue seems to be tied to their proximity to the caravan plot so if they're "on break" wandering around talking to them only yields the "I just want to trade some things" prompt. At least for me personally.

Also I'm curious because the martial plots I build tend to have turrets or spotlights built in and they fire normally do you think I should still build other turrets and whatnot? Personally whenever I show up to a settlement that's being attacked the gunners always seem to spawn right in the middle of my settlement, sometimes spawning literally inside of plot buildings. It can make the SS2 defense quests a bit annoying because I tend to build my defenses around the entrances and exits to the settlement itself. Anyone else ever experience that issue?

If the caravaneer wasn't near the plot during work hours, I just used the gavel to command "back to work" and then spoke to them. If outside work hours, I just slept and waited lol.

I honestly wouldn't have built so many turrets if I wasn't doing permadeath. I meant that bit as specific to this challenge run. I just didn't want to take any chances is all. In a normal playthrough, the handful of plot turrets and my own combat abilities would probably suffice.

 

[LCdr Frog]

I use "We are the Minutemen" and "Militarized Minutemen", so for "When There's Smoke", I use the flare gun just before meeting Aiden. It does help since I'm also using MAIM, SCOURGE and GCM. Through GCM, I change the incoming and outgoing damage to 1 and remove all health bonus from endurance. I put no point in riffleman, commando and gunslinger since with SCOURGE, there is no more bullet sponge. I also go with component and operating cost. With having lots of industrial plot, sticking to basic martial plot and keeping those training plots to bare minimum I easily manage. You have to go slow and make sure your plots don't auto upgrade.

 

[Colonel Ducky]

I use "We are the Minutemen" and "Militarized Minutemen", so for "When There's Smoke", I use the flare gun just before meeting Aiden. It does help since I'm also using MAIM, SCOURGE and GCM. Through GCM, I change the incoming and outgoing damage to 1 and remove all health bonus from endurance. I put no point in riffleman, commando and gunslinger since with SCOURGE, there is no more bullet sponge. I also go with component and operating cost. With having lots of industrial plot, sticking to basic martial plot and keeping those training plots to bare minimum I easily manage. You have to go slow and make sure your plots don't auto upgrade.

I left all the game balance stuff at vanilla survival for this challenge run so it would feel legit to me, but I usually run with Unbogus Health Scaling. UHS uses base HP plus endurance related HP only, with no level related HP increases, so it also removes bullet sponges (including the player). If you have ten endurance at level one or ten endurance at level seventy, it doesn't matter, you have the same HP either way. I use it with vanilla survival damage modifiers (4x in, 0.75x out).

Having 4x in and 0.75x out damage modifiers, with everybody at level one equivalent HP for the entire game, makes combat super deadly and fast. With endurance being the only way to get more HP, leveling up can be scarier, not easier, since your HP stays the same as you level and everybody gets better and better gear every time you level.

I'm about to work out my load order for my next playthrough, and I've been meaning to check out Scourge and Maim. Maybe I'll do that this time around.

 

[yaugie]

Personally whenever I show up to a settlement that's being attacked the gunners always seem to spawn right in the middle of my settlement, sometimes spawning literally inside of plot buildings. It can make the SS2 defense quests a bit annoying because I tend to build my defenses around the entrances and exits to the settlement itself. Anyone else ever experience that issue?

This is a LONG known issue, the base-game attacks do it too. Basically, when you 'fast travel', the game roughly calculates what else happened in the world due to the amount of time passing 'offscreen' during your Fast Travel - or at least, where any NPCs moved to in that time. And since the AI Package for incoming attackers starts with "spawn here, then move towards the Workbench Object", that's what they do - it doesn't do actual combat calculations offscreen, or even pathfinding, which is why even building walls around your settlements doesn't do a real lot.

 

[LCdr Frog]

I left all the game balance stuff at vanilla survival for this challenge run so it would feel legit to me, but I usually run with Unbogus Health Scaling. UHS uses base HP plus endurance related HP only, with no level related HP increases, so it also removes bullet sponges (including the player). If you have ten endurance at level one or ten endurance at level seventy, it doesn't matter, you have the same HP either way. I use it with vanilla survival damage modifiers (4x in, 0.75x out).

Having 4x in and 0.75x out damage modifiers, with everybody at level one equivalent HP for the entire game, makes combat super deadly and fast. With endurance being the only way to get more HP, leveling up can be scarier, not easier, since your HP stays the same as you level and everybody gets better and better gear every time you level.

I'm about to work out my load order for my next playthrough, and I've been meaning to check out Scourge and Maim. Maybe I'll do that this time around.

With MAIM, I have to be really cautious, as even with an helmet, ennemy have a high tendency to one shot you in the head. This why for the attack on Gunner Plaza, my character was wearing a suit of fully updraded X-01 PA.

 

[LCdr Frog]

This is a LONG known issue, the base-game attacks do it too. Basically, when you 'fast travel', the game roughly calculates what else happened in the world due to the amount of time passing 'offscreen' during your Fast Travel - or at least, where any NPCs moved to in that time. And since the AI Package for incoming attackers starts with "spawn here, then move towards the Workbench Object", that's what they do - it doesn't do actual combat calculations offscreen, or even pathfinding, which is why even building walls around your settlements doesn't do a real lot.

What is also annoying is that it makes no difference if you use the Institute teleporter which is quasi instantaneous.

 

[yaugie]

What is also annoying is that it makes no difference if you use the Institute teleporter which is quasi instantaneous.

Yeah that supposedly only makes the ingame time tick forward by 1 minute, but it still does that, so I don't know. Must just be what happens during a 'fast travel load screen', or maybe the way it works that out behind the scenes is just plain bugged. Wouldn't be the first time that's turned out to be the case.
I know if you sprint back to a settlement or use a Vertibird to fly there the incoming attack is far less likely to already be in the middle of your settlement by the time you arrive, and from memory the 'amount of time passed offscreen' during a normal (not Institute Teleport) Fast Travel is roughly the amount of time it'd take if you WALKED that distance...

All that said, it's AGES since I wasn't running a mod to disable those vanilla attacks anyway, so I haven't actually tinkered with them in quite a while.

 

[Rocola]

If you want to avoid the attacks spawn points issue, don't fast travel when you go to defend a settlement. Just run, or use a vertibird if you can. If you arrive before the attack, all enemies will come from the outside of the settlement. And if you arrive after, its almost the same, I never had issues with it since I've started playing survival.

 

[Colonel Ducky]

Yeah that supposedly only makes the ingame time tick forward by 1 minute, but it still does that, so I don't know. Must just be what happens during a 'fast travel load screen', or maybe the way it works that out behind the scenes is just plain bugged. Wouldn't be the first time that's turned out to be the case.
I know if you sprint back to a settlement or use a Vertibird to fly there the incoming attack is far less likely to already be in the middle of your settlement by the time you arrive, and from memory the 'amount of time passed offscreen' during a normal (not Institute Teleport) Fast Travel is roughly the amount of time it'd take if you WALKED that distance...

All that said, it's AGES since I wasn't running a mod to disable those vanilla attacks anyway, so I haven't actually tinkered with them in quite a while.

SKK settlement attack system is my settlement attack replacement mod of choice. I ran with vanilla for this challenge to make everything legit, but on most playthroughs, I absolutely love the SKK system. If you configure it as such, you can simultaneously make it more challenging but also less annoying lol. Attacks will always wait indefinitely for you to arrive in the settlement first before starting regardless of travel mode, so you'll never be too late or have attackers in the middle, and the scaling of the the attacks are completely configurable.

 

[Colonel Ducky]

With MAIM, I have to be really cautious, as even with an helmet, ennemy have a high tendency to one shot you in the head. This why for the attack on Gunner Plaza, my character was wearing a suit of fully updraded X-01 PA.

T-51 got the job done for me, but UHS doesn't have a headshot system lol. I really think I will give maim a shot next.

 

[Ser_Sunday]

Yeah that supposedly only makes the ingame time tick forward by 1 minute, but it still does that, so I don't know. Must just be what happens during a 'fast travel load screen', or maybe the way it works that out behind the scenes is just plain bugged. Wouldn't be the first time that's turned out to be the case.
I know if you sprint back to a settlement or use a Vertibird to fly there the incoming attack is far less likely to already be in the middle of your settlement by the time you arrive, and from memory the 'amount of time passed offscreen' during a normal (not Institute Teleport) Fast Travel is roughly the amount of time it'd take if you WALKED that distance...

All that said, it's AGES since I wasn't running a mod to disable those vanilla attacks anyway, so I haven't actually tinkered with them in quite a while.

Oh the vanilla attacks functionally normally for me, those guys spawn outside the settlement properly. For some reason its literally only when I get the quests from SS2 to "go defend XXXX settlement!"

I mean after my last bad call I'm willing to entertain the idea that its not something SS2 is doing to cause the issue but I do know that it only happens to the gunners that are tied to the SS2 storyline. The vanilla attacks show up in my MISC quest section but the SS2 attacks show up as full on side quests and always have a large amount of gunners so I think that assumption at least is a safe one.

 

[yaugie]

Oh the vanilla attacks functionally normally for me, those guys spawn outside the settlement properly. For some reason its literally only when I get the quests from SS2 to "go defend XXXX settlement!"

I mean after my last bad call I'm willing to entertain the idea that its not something SS2 is doing to cause the issue but I do know that it only happens to the gunners that are tied to the SS2 storyline. The vanilla attacks show up in my MISC quest section but the SS2 attacks show up as full on side quests and always have a large amount of gunners so I think that assumption at least is a safe one.

There's been more than a few reports of the SS2 Attacks not functioning as intended for some people (things like spawning too many guys, triggering too frequently, etc on top of just insta-porting to the middle of settlements); I've been keeping an eye on it to try to figure out if there's a pattern to it, because the subsystems generating those will need to be working well for what's coming in Chapter 3. The issue is that they are working flawlessly for me even on my own "mod setup" load order, and 3/4 of the 'complaints' are too vague to give anything to start working off...

 

[Ser_Sunday]

There's been more than a few reports of the SS2 Attacks not functioning as intended for some people (things like spawning too many guys, triggering too frequently, etc on top of just insta-porting to the middle of settlements); I've been keeping an eye on it to try to figure out if there's a pattern to it, because the subsystems generating those will need to be working well for what's coming in Chapter 3. The issue is that they are working flawlessly for me even on my own "mod setup" load order, and 3/4 of the 'complaints' are too vague to give anything to start working off...

Modlists, modlists, modlists. Its honestly the only way we'll be able to identify where something like that is coming from. Cross-referencing the people who are experiencing it with the people who aren't would allow us to hone in on where the bug is quicker.

Obviously I'm more than willing to help test anything that needs done. I love SS2 so anything I can do to contribute I'm more than happy to volunteer for.