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Discussion Understanding CTDs - Triangle of Death

Having dicked around with this for along time, I think that I can safely say that resolution has a pretty big impact on this as well. For those of us playing on higher, unsupported resolutions (like ultra-wide), you get more drawcalls for a given frame. I believe that this may be giving you a delay between the CPU and GPU(s) that will cause the scripting engine to crash. This is particularly bad around cell borders.

What really pisses me off, is that Kinggath can have all of his settlements at level 3 and never have experienced a crash on his potato of a testing machine. Whereas, anyone with a multi-core and multi GPU setups seem to have the most issues.

I wish that this mod wasn't so damned good, so I could just give up on it. We'll see if it gets any better or worse with my new GPU coming in a week or two. Probably worse I'd imagine.

Oh, and just something that I've found to help quite a bit is to make sure that you force V-Sync@60 fps via the driver. For Nvidia anyways, this is how to do it:

Right-Click on your desktop and click "Nvidia Control Panel".

Under the "Change Resolution" tab, make sure that your refresh rate is set to 60Hz.

Under the "Manage 3D Settings" tab, select the program settings tab (Global works, but it will do it to all of your apps, which you don't need).

Set "Triple Buffering" to On.

Set "Vertical Sync" to On.

Set "Maximum Pre-rendered frames" to 1.

Save changes and start up the game.

It's not a 100% fix, but it seems to help, since enabling V-sync in game doesn't seem to fully cap it sometimes (I've seen my fps creep above 60 with just the in-game setting).
 
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So you mentioned that futzing with the timescale can screw up Papyrus VM... does this also apply to reducing the time scale? I run a mod called SKK Dynamic Workshop Time which slows the timescale to 1:1 when I enter workshop mode... am I slowly destroying my save file as a result?
 
So you mentioned that futzing with the timescale can screw up Papyrus VM... does this also apply to reducing the time scale? I run a mod called SKK Dynamic Workshop Time which slows the timescale to 1:1 when I enter workshop mode... am I slowly destroying my save file as a result?

1:1 is said to be very bad...
 
So you mentioned that futzing with the timescale can screw up Papyrus VM... does this also apply to reducing the time scale? I run a mod called SKK Dynamic Workshop Time which slows the timescale to 1:1 when I enter workshop mode... am I slowly destroying my save file as a result?
1:1 is said to be very bad...
Yeap. Unfortunately, changing the timescale in any way will have an effect on quests triggering and other events handled by the story manager code, from what I can tell. The "safest" (and I put that in air-quotes on purpose, since I wouldn't recommend changing the timescale at all) custom setting is 6 at the lowest, but even with that you will definitely see quest trigger slowdown, issues with weather changes, and possibly other events/scripts going out-of-sync and taking forever to resolve their corresponding story manager nodes.
 
Thanks for the warning. I've disabled that mod and started a new playthrough; my latest playthrough was starting to show signs of potential corruption anyway (Finch Farm was completely broken and nobody could be assigned to anything). With the info I've learned from reading these various cautionary tales I've decided to limit the number of city plans I use in general, refrain from changing the timescale, and limit the number of settlers in non-planned settlements.

Never realized just how fragile the house of cards that is the settlement system really was, heh. I've had several playthroughs ruined by corrupted settlements, generally the most successful playthroughs I have are the ones that avoid settlement building in general (minus a smallish homebase for myself, of course)
 
"generally the most successful playthroughs I have are the ones that avoid settlement building in general (minus a smallish homebase for myself, of course)"

Weird how that works! I remember the launch of Fallout 4 and Todd Howard was talking about the new features... big applause for the new Power Armor set and the modifications... and the settlements...

1 out of 2 isn't bad, I guess!

John
 
"generally the most successful playthroughs I have are the ones that avoid settlement building in general (minus a smallish homebase for myself, of course)"

Weird how that works! I remember the launch of Fallout 4 and Todd Howard was talking about the new features... big applause for the new Power Armor set and the modifications... and the settlements...

1 out of 2 isn't bad, I guess!

John
To be fair, I believe that the developers never intended players to embrace and engage with the settlement system as passionately as many have. It makes sense that that playstyle would be most stable, as I think that was what they designed for. Looking at the workshop scripts, they're pretty ad-hoc and look like they were constantly added to, modified, and in flux throughout development. They look unplanned and "organic", like the developers didn't know what they wanted when they started writing them. Not necessarily a bad thing, in and of itself. Just not terribly stable if you are going all-in when using them and maximizing everything as quickly as possible while modifying the house of cards they represent.
 
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To be fair, I believe that the developers never intended players to embrace and engage with the settlement system as passionately as many have.
Which is extremely strange given that Settlements are critical to the “drag ‘em along by the noses” default playthrough that is offered by the Minutemen.

—edit—

It also offers a creative outlet.
 
Which is extremely strange given that Settlements are critical to the “drag ‘em along by the noses” default playthrough that is offered by the Minutemen.

It also offers a creative outlet.
It's not too strange if you think of the settlement mechanics as a late design addition. It explains why, only an hour or so into the game, the main questline is suddenly derailed into the Minuteman settlement quest series, and the conflicting messages from Mama Murphy's and Preston's dialogue when you return to the Museum of Freedom after you rescue them. I'm pretty sure that they initially designed the flow to drive you to Diamond City, with the Quincy group just going on and doing their thing in Sanctuary without you, but the "follow us to Sanctuary" part was added after the initial storyboarding and quest flow design meetings were over and dialogue and level design had already started so that they could add in the settlement mechanics and attach them to a faction. I'd bet they did a lot of refactoring of the story purpose of the Minutemen when they decided to feature the settlement system.
 
That then begs the question, what was the original purpose of the minutemen as a faction if the settlements were a late add-on to the game? Would the game have turned out any different or would have the ending been the same, with a lesser influence of the Minuteman?

As far as being "fair", I can see your point. However, my only view is if a company promotes something and really has poor execution (along with poor vision - during time of Minecraft and other iconic games like SimCity??? haha), I think they really misunderstood the market (game longevity), took a quality hit on their reputation etc.

Again, agree with what you said.

I just think Fallout is a marquee game with a legacy and a solid fanbase that will let it live many years in between developments ... and perhaps more diligence should have been done. It is after all, a product for someone to buy. Income, continuing inflow is a great thing!

For example, if they skipped Creation Club (debatable in another thread), and actually packaged something of value such as "Fallout 4: Surviving Life" - say, its an updated FO4 base game, with engine expansions, more stability, Workshop menu upgrades, more quests, more lands, locations, inclusions of a lot of current in-game locations that were poorly utilized, etc... would we be willing to spend $59 to $89 for this? I would have been 1st in line. Hell, to play this game with great affection for over 2000 hours now, and how many more hours before fallout 5? I would pay a subscription yearly for valued upgrades and improvements, not micro transactions of nickels and dimes.

How much did they make off me for Creation Club? $0. How much will I spend on Fallout 76? $0

I don't play player versus player (no matter the assurances of Howard on the grudging, able to setup private games with friends, and modding - later - later...

Again, I think Beth is missing the market... and still misunderstanding the market.

Being fair is right about how things went... perhaps I am more thinking of what Fallout 4 could have been. Musing. Perhaps just a bit melancholy about the what could have been. And with great mods of Kinggath and others, it would have been glorious. Life longevity, continued fan base, returning and repeat customers (happy would be a bonus!)

So instead of Fallout 76, where will I be spending my money? How about Cyberpunk 2077, Redeye Redemption 2.. what will be the next iconic game? Does Beth value Fallout as a Franchise or just another game like Call of Duty.

Here come the hackers! Haha...

These are just my humble musings on a misty rainy depressing day looking out my window at work...

John
 
Technically the only reason to do the Minutemen quests is for Artillery - if you decide to destroy the Prydwin and kill the BOS off with the Minutemen storyline. Even that can be done with Railroad, and likely the Institute storyline also.

That is literally the only reason to have more than a single settlement, because with a single settlement you can fulfil all your adhesive needs for Gun Nut and Armorer and dealing with Power Armor. Take RedRocket as a personal base to store stuff (a Power Armor barn?) and hell with the rest of them.

If all you do is play swapsies with weapon and armor mods, you don’t even need the adhesive. You can get plenty in the game, just be thoughtful about it.

Given the combination of various hassles with the vanilla settlements system (BS Defence FTW! also raising the limits of food/water storage) it “feels” very much as if it were tacked on as an afterthought. Poorly thought out as it were. Even the supply lines seem very flaky.

I’m tempted to say “designed deliberately to make a player run around in circles”. Because otherwise, you need sod-all and can just go do what you’re supposed to do game-wise: recover Shaun. Without checking out all the complexities of the rest of the game-world. Is this a Bethesda mechanic for encouraging exploring?

I also cannot be bothered with PVP gameplay.
 
Again, I think Beth is missing the market... and still misunderstanding the market.
I don't think they're missing the market as much as trying to drive the market. That way they can milk it for all it's worth. Whether that pans out for them is to be seen. I personally hope it doesn't and they go back to what got them were they are but greed is hard to overcome.
 
With the complaint... Your mod broke my game! Fix it!
LOL

^^^^^THIS^^^^
Even as a GREEN "builder" (using others plans) back in the beginning days of FO4 modding, I would Always stay away from those types of comments and thought patterns. My usual take is that I PROBABLY BORKED something! Sometimes even after reading the description, there is a lot left to interpretation depending on the level of clear communication on the Authors part in their description and the understanding of the end user. Throw in a few unconsidered (by the author) mods chosen by the end user....BOOM CTD city!!

I absolutely hate those types of comments because some Authors are not very dissimilar from sensitive artists, too much unwarranted criticism of their vision, and we lose a good mod because the author would just as soon keep their work to themselves rather than deal with the incessant whining of blame throwing ppl who refuse to think the error may instead be the application of the mod on their own system or simply, the PC Connection Module right between the seat and the keyboard...:beee
 
Posted this in another thread, but I think that it might be relevant here:

So, Conqueror is live and I've got myself a new 2080ti that I'm running it on. I've got to say that it's running perfectly now. I wanted to test it so I put all cities at level 3 from the start and ran the game for over 6 hours with no crashes or hitches.

For Cranky and others running 2 gpu's:

During testing with my 2 980's, I did pull one and it didn't seem to make a big difference. However, I believe that I forgot to reinstall the graphics driver after doing so. This may have left some of the SLi stuff active. So, moving from 2 gpu's to 1 may be the fix that the high end pc users are looking for, as it worked for me (for the moment at least).

This could potentially happen with anyone that has integrated graphics on their cpu (which I don't, but most do). Disabling your integrated graphics from the motherboard may help. But, I have no way of testing this with my current setups.

I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with bethesda's VRAM allocation or something. With 2 x 4 GB cards, it might think that you have 8 GB of VRAM on a single card and not allocate it properly. My old cards only ran at about 70% and were crashing, but I never took a good look at VRAM usage, and if it's mis-allocation, then it would be really hard to see anyways. I always ended up getting a Visual C related crash where it was searching for various .dlls.

I'm just glad it's working right, after a year of pissing around with it. Hope this helps someone
 
Technically the only reason to do the Minutemen quests is for Artillery - if you decide to destroy the Prydwin and kill the BOS off with the Minutemen storyline. Even that can be done with Railroad, and likely the Institute storyline also.

I’m tempted to say “designed deliberately to make a player run around in circles”. Because otherwise, you need sod-all and can just go do what you’re supposed to do game-wise: recover Shaun. Without checking out all the complexities of the rest of the game-world. Is this a Bethesda mechanic for encouraging exploring?

This! It occurred to me recently how immersion breaking the settlement system is vis a vis the main story, if you take it to OCD extremes like (probably) many fans of SS have. In my first playthrough I took a casual 4 year in game break from looking for my son to rescue kidnapped settlers, scrap trees, build fortifications, hoard combat armour and make sure all of my settlers had colonial hats. Not a single prompt from any NPC or from the game itself to return to the main storyline... SS, IR and ROTC just make that outcome even more likely.

I think the problem is that after a while, you run into the fact that there just isn't a great deal of point in building and maintaining a large settlement network. You just end up drowning in resources and caps, and get tired of collecting taxes and defending settlements. This is much worse if you're playing on survival mode and not using a fast travel mod. I remember my partner telling me to turn the speakers off cos he was sick of hearing the Vertibird sound effects, lol.

I found ROTC made it even less satisfying for me. Apart from the fact that I didn't know all the info contained in this thread and made some stupid decisions that killed a save I'd put 100's of hours into, once the settlements had maxed out and I'd had a good look at how incredible they were, suddenly I was bored and there didn't seem to be any point to it. Turns out the actual building of them was most of the fun.

I find myself wishing there was more quest and role playing content associated with the settlements and better mechanics that gave them more purpose. Like a DLC sized quest line that was more involved than just establishing and defending. I'm playing on an old low end rig with no hope of getting a better one for the next while, so my solution is to have a few big cities, one in each region so I have somewhere to sleep and get purified water, and I enjoy RaiderOverhaul and SKKSettlementAttack so got those going to have the odd brutal war to wade into. I've found that I get CTD's more often with levelled residential plots, especially the interior plots so I just use normal beds and agricultural and industrial plots for their goodies. So far on my latest playthrough this strategy has worked well, got moderate sized cities at all the spots in the Triangle of Death and it's working OK.

This feels like something I should already know, but what happens if you do the quests to unlock settlements, and then just leave them and don't build a beacon? This playthrough I'm just not going to bother with most of them.
 
This feels like something I should already know, but what happens if you do the quests to unlock settlements, and then just leave them and don't build a beacon? This playthrough I'm just not going to bother with most of them.
They just sit there empty. There are a few that I've not even bothered throwing a turret down. Generally because I see no ingame reason for placing a settlement at X spot.
 
They just sit there empty. There are a few that I've not even bothered throwing a turret down. Generally because I see no ingame reason for placing a settlement at X spot.
yep, and if anyone is there or shows up just move them. I have some mods that have wondering / loose settlers I can assign. I just move them like normal and assign them someplace better.
 
They just sit there empty. There are a few that I've not even bothered throwing a turret down. Generally because I see no ingame reason for placing a settlement at X spot.

Thanks for that. There's a certain number you have to have beacons at to progress the minutemen quest right? It can't be that many though cos I've done it on every playthrough without trying. I've noticed too that some settlements seem to spawn settlers far more often than others, I sometimes use those to farm settlers for Abernathy and places like that which never seem to. Abernathy is a b**ch with RaiderOverhaul and Mortal Settlers, that place is always piling up the corpses quicker than I can replace them.

I've found the SS maintenance cost system and using Survival mode return a bit of roleplaying to the settlement system, especially since my PC can't handle heaps of residential plots (lower tax income). There's a level of cost if you want to maintain a massive empire, instead of limited cost and ludicrous reward. It's not much fun without fast travel though. If you combine that with We are the Minutemen you get more of a feel that you're doing something purposeful with it.

I guess Conqueror is a first step towards trying to make a bit more of a meaningful background to give the awesomeness of SS something to work with. It'd be cool if settlements could rebel and turn hostile, be actually taken by other factions and you'd get a mission to take them back, etc. I'm guessing anything like that would probably end up bricking the workshop script though.
 
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