the Sim Settlements forums!
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Whisper givin’ it a burl - October 2018
- Thread starter Whisper
- Start date
- Messages
- 1,320
I present to you the Starlight Caravansary and Interdiction Post. Some basic information about it to start with...
I got the initial plan together in just under 155% of vanilla build size (two of the +25% build increases in the holotape). Manually test-building it up towards the final L3 required another +25% boost, it's not at a stage of everything at L3 as yet. I suspect that it will take at least 2 more boosts, probably to between 225-250% total.
Size: 13 settlers + 1 leader (14 total).
L0 settlers: 5 (+ leader)
L1 settlers: +4
L2 settlers: +2
L3 settlers: +2
City Desk Location: Up the stairs inside the drive-in, where the skeleton and mattress are initially found (now removed).
Agriculture: 3 external plots. Builder's choice are: 1x tato, 1x mutfruit, 1x corn (once all three plots have upgraded to 2+ then the player should have ingredients accumulating for adhesive production).
(Advanced) Industrial Plot: Community Well - the player should upgrade to Brewery (this is a Caravansary!)
Water: hand pumps, purifier, community well, and special tanks to keep the gathered water pure and fresh for long periods without going off. (PBP water-producing assets.)
Martial Plots: 2 exterior (covering the gates) and 1 interior (strategic planning).
Recreational plots: 1 interior and 1 exterior (I chose a park).
Commercial plots: general store, medic, and (in L3) two random.
Player benefits from this city plan: adhesive, food, water, medicine, general gear, a player home & bed with the fast-travel mat just in front of it. The player home holds a Power Armor station and has a terminal hooked into the power grid, there is also a barn with Armorer/Chemistry/Weaponsmith stations.
Now for the pictures. Warning: 4k images incoming.
I got the initial plan together in just under 155% of vanilla build size (two of the +25% build increases in the holotape). Manually test-building it up towards the final L3 required another +25% boost, it's not at a stage of everything at L3 as yet. I suspect that it will take at least 2 more boosts, probably to between 225-250% total.
Size: 13 settlers + 1 leader (14 total).
L0 settlers: 5 (+ leader)
L1 settlers: +4
L2 settlers: +2
L3 settlers: +2
City Desk Location: Up the stairs inside the drive-in, where the skeleton and mattress are initially found (now removed).
Agriculture: 3 external plots. Builder's choice are: 1x tato, 1x mutfruit, 1x corn (once all three plots have upgraded to 2+ then the player should have ingredients accumulating for adhesive production).
(Advanced) Industrial Plot: Community Well - the player should upgrade to Brewery (this is a Caravansary!)
Water: hand pumps, purifier, community well, and special tanks to keep the gathered water pure and fresh for long periods without going off. (PBP water-producing assets.)
Martial Plots: 2 exterior (covering the gates) and 1 interior (strategic planning).
Recreational plots: 1 interior and 1 exterior (I chose a park).
Commercial plots: general store, medic, and (in L3) two random.
Player benefits from this city plan: adhesive, food, water, medicine, general gear, a player home & bed with the fast-travel mat just in front of it. The player home holds a Power Armor station and has a terminal hooked into the power grid, there is also a barn with Armorer/Chemistry/Weaponsmith stations.
Now for the pictures. Warning: 4k images incoming.
- Messages
- 1,320
Level 0 / foundation level of the city:
The small barn below holds the armorer/chemistry/weaponsmith stations. I'm not a believer in mixing the things up and hiding them in nooks & crannies in the damn city - make 'em easily found. On the front is a sign that says "tools".
As you can see, the entire place is walled - though it looks like some careless idjit left the back gates open. Note that it's still chainlink fence behind the screen, the player can upgrade it if he wants.
The small barn below holds the armorer/chemistry/weaponsmith stations. I'm not a believer in mixing the things up and hiding them in nooks & crannies in the damn city - make 'em easily found. On the front is a sign that says "tools".
As you can see, the entire place is walled - though it looks like some careless idjit left the back gates open. Note that it's still chainlink fence behind the screen, the player can upgrade it if he wants.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 1,320
Level 1 of the city, more houses growing near the toolshed/barn:
To the right, the initial marketplace area (medic, general supplies, the strategic martial plot, and an interior rec plot). Top left, the observation deck/lookout/player's sniper platform is starting to take shape (yes it looks weird - deleting some of the wedges also removed some of the supporting beams, I don't know why):
I see that the settlers are still bad at leaving the gates open.
To the right, the initial marketplace area (medic, general supplies, the strategic martial plot, and an interior rec plot). Top left, the observation deck/lookout/player's sniper platform is starting to take shape (yes it looks weird - deleting some of the wedges also removed some of the supporting beams, I don't know why):
I see that the settlers are still bad at leaving the gates open.
- Messages
- 1,320
Level 2 of the city. A new strongpoint has been built at the secondary gate, with associated residential plot for the guard (assuming the player assigns him to it):
A new settler home has been built above the marketplace, along with decking for shelter and casual observation of the road. The larger observation deck is closer to completion and more functional, though still a helluva fall (Dogmeat, how you managed to fall off here I dunno - clumsy crittur):
A new settler home has been built above the marketplace, along with decking for shelter and casual observation of the road. The larger observation deck is closer to completion and more functional, though still a helluva fall (Dogmeat, how you managed to fall off here I dunno - clumsy crittur):
Last edited:
- Messages
- 1,320
Level 3 of the city. The observation deck is now complete. (Don't jump. Seriously.)
Two new shops with associated residential plots are built into this location behind the toolshed barn, near the back gate. Should'a got here sooner peeps, latecomers get second-best accomodations...after all, they didn't have to put up the junk walls like the poor first settlers did.
The brewery has a customer, probably going to have a drink in the park right next door.
I pretty-much surrounded the entire place. There is plenty of room for other stuff to be placed, whether it be artillery or for vertibirds to land or whatever.
Two new shops with associated residential plots are built into this location behind the toolshed barn, near the back gate. Should'a got here sooner peeps, latecomers get second-best accomodations...after all, they didn't have to put up the junk walls like the poor first settlers did.
The brewery has a customer, probably going to have a drink in the park right next door.
I pretty-much surrounded the entire place. There is plenty of room for other stuff to be placed, whether it be artillery or for vertibirds to land or whatever.
- Messages
- 1,320
And that is my allowed 10 pictures.
That said and that work done, I'm withdrawing from the contest. There are too many fundamental issues with this build.
The biggest issue being that the build is obviously not actually centered around the projector building. Seriously, I tried. The other two attempts looked like:
1/ an octagonal cross between a barn and a grain silo (give it some fins and it would'a headed to the moon)
2/ the illegitimate offspring of a bunker and an industrial plant (CONCRETE HENGE! bloody hell, it looked like a grim survivor of the old world rather than some mess that a dozen settlers kitbashed together out of whatever junk buildings and handy cars that they tore apart.)
I'm also bothered by how some of the support beams for the observation deck disappeared, as well as other strange stuff that was going on.
That said and that work done, I'm withdrawing from the contest. There are too many fundamental issues with this build.
The biggest issue being that the build is obviously not actually centered around the projector building. Seriously, I tried. The other two attempts looked like:
1/ an octagonal cross between a barn and a grain silo (give it some fins and it would'a headed to the moon)
2/ the illegitimate offspring of a bunker and an industrial plant (CONCRETE HENGE! bloody hell, it looked like a grim survivor of the old world rather than some mess that a dozen settlers kitbashed together out of whatever junk buildings and handy cars that they tore apart.)
I'm also bothered by how some of the support beams for the observation deck disappeared, as well as other strange stuff that was going on.
- Messages
- 1,320
@uituit that’s what it needs, and there are a couple of “relaxed” raised organic areas already for the settlers to keep an eye on things while they casually enjoy a well-earned break. Perhaps the outdoor covered walkways in PBP would work more for a market area. Someone else can try it.
@Rudy no.
The really big problem with this build is that the observation deck is pure player-driven ego. It screams loudly and in-your-face: “Yay I am mighty!” Which even putting this lot of images up instead of quietly withdrawing from the contest says wonders for my bloody psychology and thinking aye?
Sure, I could rip that abomination down and make another smallish flat deck over the collapsed wing of the drive-in. The internal martial plot disappears and an external martial plot goes there. The rest sprawls out a bunch like I did with the groups of 5 and 4 houses in the L0/1 stages of the plan.
That would look and feel right for a SimSettlements city. Settlers kitbash stuff, go up two levels max, ‘cause its a pain in the ass and dangerous to build higher.
It doesn’t inspire me.
It also doesn’t IMO make the projector building the center of the settlement.
So I’m trying to kid myself that I’m putting it up as an extremely bad example of how *not* to build a city. ‘Cause the entire concept behind the observation platform is very immersion-breaking and non-lore-friendly.
Yeah, that sounds right. Bad example. Of how not to build a city. Not a monument to bloody failed ego at all. >_<
——————
That said, it would have been a nightmare to build that damn platform without WS+, so an awesome test and learning experience on the whole. Despite personal frustrations with the result.
@Rudy no.
The really big problem with this build is that the observation deck is pure player-driven ego. It screams loudly and in-your-face: “Yay I am mighty!” Which even putting this lot of images up instead of quietly withdrawing from the contest says wonders for my bloody psychology and thinking aye?
Sure, I could rip that abomination down and make another smallish flat deck over the collapsed wing of the drive-in. The internal martial plot disappears and an external martial plot goes there. The rest sprawls out a bunch like I did with the groups of 5 and 4 houses in the L0/1 stages of the plan.
That would look and feel right for a SimSettlements city. Settlers kitbash stuff, go up two levels max, ‘cause its a pain in the ass and dangerous to build higher.
It doesn’t inspire me.
It also doesn’t IMO make the projector building the center of the settlement.
So I’m trying to kid myself that I’m putting it up as an extremely bad example of how *not* to build a city. ‘Cause the entire concept behind the observation platform is very immersion-breaking and non-lore-friendly.
Yeah, that sounds right. Bad example. Of how not to build a city. Not a monument to bloody failed ego at all. >_<
——————
That said, it would have been a nightmare to build that damn platform without WS+, so an awesome test and learning experience on the whole. Despite personal frustrations with the result.
if u change ur mind or get inspired again
- Messages
- 1,320
Thanks.
I think that the best takeaway from this (for me) is to always be in the mindset of “what would settlers on the edge of starvation build?”
The answer is “the vanilla Abernathy Farm”. (Though maybe a little less narrow.)
From that viewpoint, I admire the artwork in the base game. Bethesda’s artists did a fine job. As did the people who created the kitbashed city plans in the base SS.
I think that the best takeaway from this (for me) is to always be in the mindset of “what would settlers on the edge of starvation build?”
The answer is “the vanilla Abernathy Farm”. (Though maybe a little less narrow.)
From that viewpoint, I admire the artwork in the base game. Bethesda’s artists did a fine job. As did the people who created the kitbashed city plans in the base SS.
- Messages
- 79
Don't be too hard on yourself, man. You've just run into a steeper learning curve than expected. And helped observers, such as myself, learn from your situation.
They say we learn more from failure than from success. And while I wouldn't say you failed, it sounds like you've learned a lot. So it's by no means a wasted effort.
My thoughts on observation platforms; I've found that they're not as practical as you'd expect. I often found that by the time I climbed to the top of mine, the attack would be over. Or if I was lucky enough to get there in time, I'd often lose track of where I downed my targets, so looting the corpses became a pain.
I've moved on to building watchtowers as part of my defense infrastructure. Better to have a setter or two manning the high position with a hunting rifle, than me trying to scramble to them. Building variations on the design of AdaposeTV's watchtower, they look pretty good too. I'm keen to get my hands on PBP though, as all those extra lego pieces will enable me to make my towers look so much better.
They say we learn more from failure than from success. And while I wouldn't say you failed, it sounds like you've learned a lot. So it's by no means a wasted effort.
You're absolutely correct. It's one thing to admire the work as a consumer, it's another thing altogether to admire it from a producer's perspective.
My thoughts on observation platforms; I've found that they're not as practical as you'd expect. I often found that by the time I climbed to the top of mine, the attack would be over. Or if I was lucky enough to get there in time, I'd often lose track of where I downed my targets, so looting the corpses became a pain.
I've moved on to building watchtowers as part of my defense infrastructure. Better to have a setter or two manning the high position with a hunting rifle, than me trying to scramble to them. Building variations on the design of AdaposeTV's watchtower, they look pretty good too. I'm keen to get my hands on PBP though, as all those extra lego pieces will enable me to make my towers look so much better.
- Messages
- 1,320
@Koeran83 true and it was never meant to be practical for the settlers. Just a player showpiece. That’s why I left the martial plots down lower.
Yeah, was a good learning experience.
—edit—
That said, it actually was a good sniping platform. It let me see and take out a passing radscorpion from a long range.
Yeah, was a good learning experience.
—edit—
That said, it actually was a good sniping platform. It let me see and take out a passing radscorpion from a long range.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 79
Yeah, that's super satisfying. Especially when they're so far away they're outside of VATS range. Though I don't know if that's still a thing on PC.
Though I tried to snipe a rad-scorpion the other day, and it burrowed and appeared right next to me. Was not a fun time.
I meant to mention that while that's a great mindset to work from, you might want to consider having a mindset for each level of the city plan. Something like:
- What would settlers on the edge of starvation build?
- What would settlers who have their basic needs met want now?
- How would settlers make this place feel like home?
WetRats
Once A Well-Known Member
Moderator
Patreon Supporter
Community Rockstar
Verified Builder
Wiki Contributor
- Messages
- 894
@Whisper: you have inspired my next Starlight build.
I'm going to start with the conceit that because of the old molerat infestation, the settlers want to live well above the ground.
The first couple residential plots will be on the standing wing, with access only up the ramp, and defenses oriented to take out any climbers.
As the settlement grows, they will build out from the standing wing, and eventually up another level or so, kind of wrapping around the projector as an anchor.
Working plots will be on the ground level, but each will have some sort of platform for the settlers to retreat to if the molerats come back.
I'm going to start with the conceit that because of the old molerat infestation, the settlers want to live well above the ground.
The first couple residential plots will be on the standing wing, with access only up the ramp, and defenses oriented to take out any climbers.
As the settlement grows, they will build out from the standing wing, and eventually up another level or so, kind of wrapping around the projector as an anchor.
Working plots will be on the ground level, but each will have some sort of platform for the settlers to retreat to if the molerats come back.
- Messages
- 1,320
@WetRats that was kind of my idea when putting residential on stilts. Settlers wouldn’t be easily gotten to while asleep, plus bad storms they would be out of the mud. During the day, while everyone is awake, not so much of a problem - and plenty of “safe” places to relax and keep an eye on the countryside. Impromptu sniper platforms as it were for relaxing settlers to use.
I should have thought more of aerial bridges connecting things.
The big ole sniper platform was (in my mind) for the player to go relax and take pot-shots at nasties off in the distance. Not for use during attacks, that’s down and dirty at the ground level. I catered for that for the settlers with the two raised relaxation-areas around the main part of the residential/market area, they could shoot without running like loons out the gates.
At least, that was the general plan of attack.
I should have thought more of aerial bridges connecting things.
The big ole sniper platform was (in my mind) for the player to go relax and take pot-shots at nasties off in the distance. Not for use during attacks, that’s down and dirty at the ground level. I catered for that for the settlers with the two raised relaxation-areas around the main part of the residential/market area, they could shoot without running like loons out the gates.
At least, that was the general plan of attack.
- Messages
- 1,320
There are some in PBP. I’m not sure that settlers can use them though. No trouble for a PC.
—edit—
I tried an interesting switchback/spiral staircase. Looks ugly though, and has settler congestion issues.
WetRats
Once A Well-Known Member
Moderator
Patreon Supporter
Community Rockstar
Verified Builder
Wiki Contributor
- Messages
- 894
Cool! I will investigate.
I'm more concerned with "logical" construction than AI behavior, so If I can make a nice sniper platform without flying buttresses and acres of ladders, I'll be happy.
I'm more concerned with "logical" construction than AI behavior, so If I can make a nice sniper platform without flying buttresses and acres of ladders, I'll be happy.