Old Post Weirdness at National Visitor's Centre

I'm designing a city plan for the above and I've come across what might be some kind of bug, but what in I'm not sure. When trying to scrap there are lots of things that you would expect to scrap but don't, just like the difficulty I had at Longfellows Cabin. However, at random - well, two or three times so far, some stuff that just wouldn't scrap, or disable/markfordelete, suddenly highlights green and I can scrap it. But it then doesn't scrap in the city plan when I test it. To be explicit, no scrap mod has ever touched the save I'm designing with, neither has any settlement border mod. These are my mods:


I've taken some screenshots to try and illustrate,
first a picture of an offending collection of rubbish:

this rubbish cannot be disabled/marked for delete, selecting it in console gives a refid and baseid plus pos and rot, but trying 'disable' gets a message about

however on two or three occasions while moving around in workshop mode I came back to this location and suddenly the items are highlighted and I can scrap them. Looking at this picture:

you can see the details for some normally unscrappable rubbish, note the pos and rot numbers, in the baseline is just one item with that baseid and its numbers are:
"posX" : 25516.73046875,
"posY" : 46962.359375,
"posZ" : 1268.584228515625,
"rotX" : 0.0,
"rotY" : -0.0,
"rotZ" : 300.41226196289062

all very nearly identical (with rounding) except the rotZ, this is not the only item that is in the baseline, didn't scrap when the city was built and has just the rotZ out of wack. None of such items are of course in the scrap-profile (first thing I checked). All of such items are ones that initially didn't show up as scrappable and wouldn't scrap using console, look what happens when I try to disable another such item:

but suddenly as if by magic, later on this happens:


So, is it at all possible that while playing the game, with only the mods listed above, somehow I managed to break (perhaps partially) the precombine of the Visitor's Centre? I know that sounds daft and if this wasn't happening I'd say 'of course not'. Maybe there is a delay after moving into the area for the settlement to be properly 'worked on' using the workshop?
If an item is in the baseline and not in the scrap profile, what would cause it to not be scrapped (apart from havok etc. which unless rubbish drops from the sky... well), I think the answer is in the rotZ numbers, but given that rubbish probably isn't havok'y (ouch!) and the big difference in the rotZ I don't understand how TS is exporting with the different numbers.
Is there possibly a connection with the fact that an awful lot of leaf and rubbish decals in and around the house, will appear on top of items that you lay on the floor 'above' them?

Just a suggestion.
walk into the settlement whip out the Town Meeting Gavel and choose Scrap this settlement.
That is what is vanilla scrappable. It's also what is on the server for a baseline. IF you scrap anything else you will need a scrap mod and so will the user.
Also.. disable Sim Settlements and related addons, load in and see if that stuff is still scrapable. SS "might" be breaking precombines.
I'll load up FH and do the same thing.

woodfuzzy said:

It's also what is on the server for a baseline.

Click to expand...

Well I made my own baseline so I could see what's in it, is there anyway to download the 'official' one to compare?

It's a SS bug!
I just loaded pure vanilla to see what is scrappable, then loaded with just SS and ran the Town Gavel... almost looked like I ran scrapall.

Have to look & see if I still have the scrap blueprints.

woodfuzzy said:

then loaded with just SS and ran the Town Gavel... almost looked like I ran scrapall.

Click to expand...

So those aren't the same thing? Is the town gavel method meant to take a long time?

Sorry to bother you again, but could you check if there is a SS bug in Longfellows Cabin too? Some of that scrapping drove me nuts!

I "think" it's global.... doing some checking now

woodfuzzy said:

I "think" it's global.... doing some checking now

Click to expand...

Of course when I was doing my Cabin city plan the SS version was: - checks nexus for publish dates - 3.2.4 to 3.3.0.

diziet said:

Is the town gavel method meant to take a long time?

Click to expand...

Just re-ran it, worked this time, and scrapped all the stuff I couldn't, of course those damn ferns in the middle of where I want to put farms won't go, I swear they're from Skyrim.

As an aside, I just noticed this:
does your Visitor's Centre ground look like this after using the gavel?

Okay... total false alarm.
I even went and redid the scrap profiles for the visitors center. Then scrapped it with the TG..then again in pure vanilla and all's good.
Those ferns in your last screens are normal. Stupid... but bugthesda normal.

So... unless you'r using a scrap mod, just make your scrap profile and use the TG to scrap with. Do NOT use console commands to remove stuff... it doesn't work for crap and the user will end up with a mess. LOL
Nap time for ol Fuzzy!

woodfuzzy said:

just make your scrap profile and use the TG to scrap with.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I don't want to scrap everything Leaving me with things that scrap using the town gavel but not the workshop (except once or twice for no apparent reason - no idea what I did different, definitely wasn't a mod change). And as I said above, there are no scrap mods or or such stuff in my load order, and my save is a special one I keep just to ensure that no such mods have touched it!

Have you tried using place anywhere with extra object selection on to delete them? I don't see it in your load order.

PBP will cause a delay because it's looking to see if it's installed every time you enter WS mode. It also causes a "background" load while it's loading all the assets. So that "may" be delaying your scrapping. (Just guessing)

Fielran said:

Have you tried using place anywhere with extra object selection on to delete them? I don't see it in your load order.

Click to expand...

Short answer, yes Would PE be in the load order, as an F4SE mod?

woodfuzzy said:

So that "may" be delaying your scrapping. (Just guessing)

Click to expand...

Ok, that's worth a test. Load the save, go into workshop mode, wait say 10mins? That enough? Booting windows now.

Well just tried scrapping the 'unscrappable but should be' again and no joy.... until, I scrapped the stone block that was next to the unscrappable, then it all went away! What?! Turns out if I scrap the blue cigarettes sign some of the hanging vines also disappear!

And... getting weirder. I edited the baseline json file to make the rotZ numbers in the file match the ones shown by 'Better Console' and I had a result! These items, though unscrappable in the workshop, because somehow I had a freak moment and was able to scrap them way earlier and made my scrap profile from that (before I knew there was any kind of problem); now scrap:

.

The stone block's original rotZ was:
"rotZ" : 307.59701538085937
I changed that to:

5.37
and it now scraps, as does all the rubbish there and the twisted bramble stuff.

But...
up at the house:

despite changing the rotZ to the consoles '2.56' from the exported value of:
"rotZ" : 146.81402587890625
the rubbish didn't scrap, notice that this rubbish _is_ scrappable using the workshop and _is not_ in the scrap profile! AAAArrrrg! Follows is the json object entry in the original baseline:

So:
a) Some items refuse to scrap except either by town gavel, scrapall or... once in a blue moon.
b)Transfer Settlements/Sim Settlements are exporting with rotZ numbers that are wildly different for a few objects, edit these and they scrap.
c) except for a few items that do scrap as normal but get exported wrongly, and when edited to the correct number, still don't scrap even though they are in the baseline and not the profile.

Which would make comparing the official baseline to mine useful.

Is this why there are no ROTC DLC plans?

What you are trying to scrap is NOT vanilla scrappable.
BUT... as you have seen, the items ARE scrappable by association. Scrap the block, the vines goes, Scrap signs the vines go, scrap the desk the trash goes, scrap the shelves the trash goes, scrap the trees the shrubs go.
I think there are 3 trash meshes that are vanilla scrappable at the Visitors Center.
If you want to only scrap certain debris,vines and trash.. use a scrap mod.
If you want the RotC baseline/scrap profile do this. (cause I'm not sure exactly which one got used)
New game:
tai
coc NationalParkVisitorsCenterExt
cqf kgsim_scrapmanager linkscrapobjects false false
export =baseline (top 2 TS options checked)
Run the Town Gavel Scrap This Settlement
export =scrap profile

BTW,
the false false "includes every thing"
the true true "excludes player built"